full ivory ban in the USA

Gehazi

Gehazi

Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
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this was discussed elsewhere on blade forums, and I saw the topic on another forum, so decided to post it up here-- basically all ivory is banned in the USA, you cannot trade it, sell it , or buy it , save for in verified antiques over 100 years old, and you are even denied that purchase outside the USA now, as they cannot verify the antique.

So you may purchase no ivory whatsoever outside the USA, you may only trade in ivory under special cases and usually with antiques-- trophy hunters are now permitted a single elephant a year as well as exceptions for a second--so if you have ivory laden antiques over 100 years old the price just got really good, otherwise you can only pass it down in your family, even in most cases of antiques, the only exceptions I imagine will be for museums. As with taxidermy of endangered or extinct species, you are not allowed to sell only to pass down.

personally I am for this ban entirely, elephants are a pretty special species, and should be preserved at all costs, even our luxury items . now we need china and india to do the same ..... ( ho ho ho ho)

http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleas...t-to-combat-poaching-wildlife-trafficking.cfm
 
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We need to put a bounty on poachers, maybe arrange a contract for elephant protection.
That's a contract I'd work for snacks & ammo. (And a guaranteed exfil if things go pear shaped...:)
 
I would totally be with funding large groups of militarized professionals to protect elephant herds with deadly force, this is a charity I would support.-- wonder if you can give money to the game wardens in south africa?
 
Do you know if the 100 year old rule is a rolling figure, or is there a set date that the antique must be before? If I had an 80 year old ivory antique, could I sell it in 20 years once it's 100 years old?
 
Not sure I agree on the ban on ivory but check you six on managing elephant herds. Most are poorly managed and regulated. Personally I say keep hunting them, raise the taxes to hunt them and allow the sale of the ivory with 90% of he proceeds going back to the wardens that protect them. If the gov'Ts are not corrupt iT will be successful and save the population.
 
RWT said:
Not sure I agree on the ban on ivory but check you six on managing elephant herds. Most are poorly managed and regulated. Personally I say keep hunting them, raise the taxes to hunt them and allow the sale of the ivory with 90% of he proceeds going back to the wardens that protect them. If the gov'Ts are not corrupt iT will be successful and save the population.
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This right here^^^ Corruption is ruining the whole party. Also destroying ivory that's already here and even been carved and put to beautiful use just to eliminate the market makes zero sense to me.

Typical full bore one way or the other, never a happy sensible middle. I totally support eliminating poachers, and I support sensible management of elephant herds. They do need to be managed.

But again the corruption is most likely gonna hamper the whole idea. And the value will go up tremendously but do no one any good except the poachers and the corrupt marketers.
 
I am now actually looking forward to the death of the last free roaming African elephant, just so we can put an end to this nonsense. Elephants have now been made commercially worthless and are little more than a gigantic varmint. Perhaps it is time to turn this around and demand that elephant lovers buy, keep and feed the things on their own dime. Just how do you prove than an antique is 100 years old? For that matter, if the ivory was legally purchased yesterday, why would it suddenly be deemed illegal today? Products and works of art that have circulated freely for hundreds of years may have to be destroyed to feed the egos of moronic environmentalist. To me the best way to ensure the viability of a thriving and wild elephant population is to make them commercially valuable, so that more land and resources can be dedicated to the creation and maintenance of abundant herds. Once again our freedoms are curtailed and we are made to pay for the sins of others to sooth the conscious of the mindless. What good is a ban on ivory in the U.S. when most of the market in poached ivory is overseas? In what way does destroying your grandfathers favorite cane or pipe protect any elephant today?

n2s
 
the ivory ban does not require you to destroy any ivory, you just can't sell it-- I fail to see the problem with this.-- this allows heirlooms to survive within their family, it is pure nonsense to demand that your ego be met by the extinction of yet another species.-- there is a very large market for ivory in the US, mainly because of people who want to own rare and expensive things like me, the way you verify an antique is 100 years old is by provenance, inclusion in earlier collections, documented travel from the original purchase to the modern collection-- this is pretty common among real quality antiques.


the only thing moronic about environmentalist is that they are not violent enough about their position. something people seem to not understand, without the life support system, there is no life in the aquarium. environmentalism is pure self interest, not being a very dedicated environmentalist is pure self hatred and suicide, hatred of your children and their children.

also there are several elephant reserves in the USA, it is a worthy cause to preserve the genetic diversity of one of the most interesting organisms on earth.
 
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Gehazi said:
the ivory ban does not require you to destroy any ivory, you just can't sell it-- I fail to see the problem with this.-- this allows heirlooms to survive within their family, it is pure nonsense to demand that your vanity be met by the extinction of yet another species.
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It's called evolution....and the destruction of the species is directly caused by corruption and the exclusion of legitimate business interests.

n2s
 
then I have the right to murder anyone I can succeed in murdering, and I have the right to steal from them if I can get away with it. by those ethical standards. ( this is sparta?)
 
Gehazi said:
then I have the right to murder anyone I can succeed in murdering, and I have the right to steal from them if I can get away with it. by those ethical standards. ( this is sparta?)
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No one is murdering anyone or anything. Poachers are taking advantage of a lucrative black market due to the distorted value of ivory, created because their political enablers have limited the legitimate harvesting and sale of these products.

n2s
 
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Gehazi said:
...also there are several elephant reserves in the USA, it is a worthy cause to preserve the genetic diversity of one of the most interesting organisms on earth.
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See, now that is a solution that we can both support.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
It's called evolution....
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I don't think that word means what you think it means. From Merriam Webster:

biology : a theory that the differences between modern plants and animals are because of changes that happened by a natural process over a very long time
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The eradication of a species over a relatively short period of time due to poaching is not really a biological process. I think that your sentiment about the last African elephant dying is a bit selfish and narrow-minded. They are an incredibly intelligent and interesting species and deserve to be on this planet just as much as us humans.
 
it is very wasteful in many ways, but the reasoning is that its so difficult to trace, that if you actually allow the sale of seized ivory , then people who take fresh ivory will just claim its part of the seizure sale, and thus black market demand remains-- by destroying it they are showing there is no profit in ivory.
this new regulation does not require the destruction of ivory, it just makes it totally illegal to trade without proper paperwork, proving that it was pre 1950 ivory essentially, which you can do with many authentic artifacts.-- you and me will still be allowed to pass down ivory imbued objects within our family, much as taxidermy of endangered species is allowed now to be passed down but never sold-- otherwise you would create a market for something that is endangered, the point is to only allow the market where it can be carefully regulated, like whale meat.

also if you like mountain gorillas which are an equally interesting and intelligent species on the brink because of human corruption, there is a couple of reserves for them in the USA-- both places I support when I can, just google them they are always looking for cash, because you can imagine its expensive to feed elephants and gorillas, plus have them cared for by proper vets.
 
I guess my point is the more you make something illegal, the more people want it and the more it creates a black market demand.

Legal harvest providing people who desire it with legal ivory isn't a bad thing. Fix the root of the problem and focus on the elimination of the poachers. Granted it's a tough task, an awful large area to search for them.

Maybe we can train mountain gorillas to hate poachers and turn them loose over there to help with the elephants. A win/win for everyone.

Eliminate the poachers, create a lucrative market for controlled hunts to maintain a healthy population and this provides income for the people of the area.

I'm not a huge fan of ivory myself, make no mistake, I'd not shoot an elephant just for his tusk.

There's plenty of hippo ivory which is legal at least over there since they are a nuisance and hurt people and damage crops and all sorts of stuff and plentiful as well. Course now that won't be available in the US either since they probably can't tell a elephant tusk from a hippo tooth to a zebra skin.
 
philllll said:
... They are an incredibly intelligent and interesting species and deserve to be on this planet just as much as us humans.
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Perhaps more so, but then again a lot of people have been massacred in Africa as well.

n2s
 
This is an interesting quote from the linked article, from a regulator.

Through a series of administrative actions, we can establish a commercial ivory ban...
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It appears to have bypassed the congressional lawmaking process most of us learned about in high school civics classes.
 
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