Full size single bit design

[Woodcraft]

Personally I would like to see a 4 lbder with Plumb geometry. And racing style grind work. Definitely a "square" overall shape. A good curve from eye to heel. Straight from eye to toe. 34" handle with a good knob.

 

[daizee]

I bet if you apply these grinds and general geometry to a Connecticut pattern you can get close with acceptable bit size. Someone who is cad savy could figure it out.

I'm no good with CAD, but I'm pretty handy with a 10" contact wheel and a belt grinder.
CT patterns are too uncommon around here to test this with a vintage head, so I guess we'll have to proceed with the NEW axe plan!

 

[Woodcraft]

I'm no good with CAD, but I'm pretty handy with a 10" contact wheel and a belt grinder.
CT patterns are too uncommon around here to test this with a vintage head, so I guess we'll have to proceed with the NEW axe plan!

It couldn't be that expensive to get a block with the eye milled out untreated could it?

 

[Woodcraft]

Just get a couple of blocks made with the eye milled out and have a "grindalong" or a "what I made with my axe sized block" thread. Then have them sent for heat treatment. That will still require an agreement on a block size.

 

[Square_peg]

I think the stylishness of a Jersey would increase buy-in in this axe though it doesn't serve any other purpose and makes them more of a pain to hang. An axe this light doesn't need the deeper eye of a Jersey or Connecticut. But I gotta admit it would look cool and it's totally doable in this weight. I have a large Jersey with a 5-9/16" bit, 6-13/16" wide and weighs just 3.42 pounds. We could take that bit down to 4-1/2" and take some weight out of the poll and it would be there.

If it was just me I'd stick to the boring but easy to hang Michigan.

 

[daizee]

I think the stylishness of a Jersey would increase buy-in in this axe though it doesn't serve any other purpose and makes them more of a pain to hang. An axe this light doesn't need the deeper eye of a Jersey or Connecticut. But I gotta admit it would look cool and it's totally doable in this weight. I have a large Jersey with a 5-9/16" bit, 6-13/16" wide and weighs just 3.42 pounds. We could take that bit down to 4-1/2" and take some weight out of the poll and it would be there.

If it was just me I'd stick to the boring but easy to hang Michigan.

I'd be happy to compromise on the Connecticut.

I was just looking at my Rixford, which is on this short, slim handle. The whole thing weighs 3.75lb, haft included. The head can't be more than 3.25lb and the poll is very wedgy. It's *close* in size to what we're talking about, but without a sophisticated shape.

 

[Woodcraft]

Picture?

 

[daizee]

Picture?

Pix are from 2013... haven't touched it yet. Maybe if I get those three hatchets covered...

Skinny little haft. House axe, I suppose.

 

[Woodcraft]

Cool.

 

[daizee]

It doesn't read as a 'big' axe, but I wonder how small it would be if it were down to 2.75lb as per Peg's idea. But in the hand if feels heavy because the haft is so skinny. There isn't a lot of room to grind/forge cheeks into this pattern, though that would let you remove some weight from the poll and keep the same outline, perhaps. It's a little bit-heavy on this heft, front-to-back.

 

[Woodcraft]

My big complaint with the Michigan is that it is bit heavy. I certainly would not design an ax that way. I would love to take a slice out of the blade near the handle and add it to the poll to balance the Michigan out. Every single American axe pattern I have ever held a plumb line to has had the line run inside the handle to the head contrary to claims otherwise. The handle plays a part. The balance held horizontal in hand of the Michigan is pretty bad, bit heavy. The plumb Rockaway 4 lb and Perfect Jersey 4lb both displayed amazing balance with a plumb line and in hand bit to poll. The fact is that the perfect is a collectable, but it is well loved for use as well. I can not help but feel that balance is a huge part of that. All the way around. My 4lb plumb was all but trash to most people. Everyone that splits and chops with it does a double take.

I really do not think picking a weight and handle length and old pattern is the best we can do. I am all for most of pegs general idea, but I want some actual functioning geometry and balance. Otherwise why bother.

 

[Woodcraft]

Pix are from 2013... haven't touched it yet. Maybe if I get those three hatchets covered...

Skinny little haft. House axe, I suppose.

I like the shape. As an axe on its own it looks to be in solid shape. As a starting point for this endeavor I for one would like more thickness to grind into.

 

[Square_peg]

I really do not think picking a weight and handle length and old pattern is the best we can do. I am all for most of pegs general idea, but I want some actual functioning geometry and balance. Otherwise why bother.

Agreed. If we are starting from scratch we might as well ask for exactly what we want - whether it ever gets made or not.

 

[rxavage]

could a single bit head be designed for full size with consideration for downsizing to fit the hatchet crowd?

 

[daizee]

could a single bit head be designed for full size with consideration for downsizing to fit the hatchet crowd?

By my calculations, a hatchet eye is ~75-85% the size of a full-size eye. So... naively applying a scaling factor, the 2.75lb head in question would become 2-2.3lb. More of a boy's axe. Hmm. I'm just going off eye measurements from the last three that I've played with. Hard to claim they're representative.

I like a hatchet in the 3/4-1.25lb range, personally. And of course the task priorities might be different with a hatchet. But I dig scaling CAD drawings to see what happens.

 

[Woodcraft]

All right, this may help with design. What is the ax you used the most? Recently? As in not what is your all time favorite. Not your dream ax. Not whatever. Think about what FULL SIZE SINGLE BIT you grabbed for the last two or three times you had "ax work" to do. We all have choices. Some people have some amazing axes! But what did you grab lately and what did you do with it? Not just testing or playing around. What ax do you grab to work with?
Let's get some pencil/ruler shots and show off the geometry of the "users" we reach for.(I say an inch and a half behind the bit for starters) As well as some birds eye and side on to show off those patterns. If we get no further we can at least share what actually works for us.

 

[Ugaldie]

The axe have I most used recently is a 17 degrees 2Kg Jauregi racing (we use this name for the Tasmanians) axe grinded by a champion axeman.

[video=youtube;F8tUJiym_SM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8tUJiym_SM&sns=em[/video]

The type of axe I mostly use are the 2Kg range Basque axes. Taper fit axes are a pleasure for the homesteader.

[video=youtube;n-kcRNP6Mzw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-kcRNP6Mzw&sns=em[/video]

You can hang them with wegded handles with no problem,

[video=youtube;wimy8ShGvOs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wimy8ShGvOs&sns=em[/video]

I'm sorry Woodcraft, I have more single bits than I need and I won't buy one more. But ask me anything I can help and I will be glad to help.

 

[Woodcraft]

Ugaldie I thought you were going to fall in! Any chance you could take a couple of pictures of that first ax? Thanks.

 

[Ugaldie]

Here you have some photos. But I think you want to know about the geometry, no?

I made the maker to use Osage Orange, he made quite a beautiful combination with local oak.

Using the axe for its intended use.

I won't have the oportunity to take more photos of that axe for at leats a week but I have some other photos of another of my axes. A beautiful Aussie grinded and hang in the Basque way were you can better guess its geometry, no idea how you call this grinding in English. Take in account this 2,5Kg axe has a 14 degrees racing grinding.

 

[Woodcraft]

First off, thank you for the pictures. Very nice ax.