Full Tang with Carbon Steel?

James_Terrio

James_Terrio

Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
4,076
The majority of what I make is aimed at guys like y'all. So I thought I'd ask here.

A) What are your general thoughts on full-tang knives made of high-carbon/low alloy steel? (I'm currently working with 1084 but also have O1, 1095, 1080 and CPM3V in stock.)

B) Are you willing to put up with a bit of patina/pitting on the tang?

C) Would you prefer the tang and blade be blued or forced-patina'd to help prevent this?

D) Would you be OK with possibly needing to polish the tang from time to time, and put some scratches on the scales as a result?

E) Would you be OK with scales/blade that are left at a "satin" finish, say 800-grit, so cleaning the tang wouldn't ruin the finish?

F) Would you like to see a care-kit come with the knife? Such as a small bottle of light oil, a wad of 0000 steel wool for light cleaning and a sheet or two of the appropriate sandpaper for serious cleaning? Or do most of you already have that stuff?

I also make hidden-tang knives, and knives made of tool and stainless steels. I'm just curious if there's interest in this type. Thank you for your time and answers. :)
 
A) High carbon = high goodness. I like all the steels you listed, but I don't prefer 3V just because it gives me a headache to try and sharpen it. O1 is probably my favorite, but 1084 is a kosher. I'm not that picky if it's carbon.

B) I don't care what my tang looks like if there's no rust.

C) I like bluing and patinas, but it's just whether it fits the aesthetics of the knife. I usually end up with a patina from use no matter what though.

D) Unless there's rust, I wouldn't be polishing the tang. See B.

E) Satin is OK with me, polishes don't matter much when a blade is seeing frequent use.

F) I have most of that, but little 'accoutrement' is always a classy touch if it doesn't push the cost up too much.
 
SpookyPistolero said:
...I don't prefer 3V just because it gives me a headache to try and sharpen it...
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You should try cutting/profiling/grinding it... even before HT! :eek: It's insanely tough, but relatively few people are willing to put up with sharpening it when it finally does get dull... I think I will use it only for big burly choppers. Maybe include a good small file with 'em. ;)

SpookyPistolero said:
F) I have most of that, but little 'accoutrement' is always a classy touch if it doesn't push the cost up too much.
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I've done the math and what I listed would only cost me about $5-$10 max. I would eat the cost and consider it a promotional expense. Thanks for your input!
 
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A. I definitely prefer high carbon full tang knives.

B. Patina doesn't bother me and can actually be a plus. As long as the pitting can be avoided through basic maintenance I'm alright.

C. I like patina to be gained through use or not at all.

D. I'd prefer if I can avoid having to sand by properly maintaining the knife, but it isn't a dealbreaker.

E. Satin is my favorite finish on a user.

F. I think that most people are pretty brand specific about what care products they use so a kit might not suit everyone. I do like knowing that a maker has thought about the future care/upkeep of the knife though.
 
I'm with spooky. My knives are all workers and they all look it. Hopefully I won't have a problem with the 3V on the Koster I ordered.:(
 
if im going to use it....
i like 01 & 1095
i like sharp,easy to make sharp, dont mind about patina...its a user after all

i have most everything needed to keep a knife in working order
 
a) Full tang is good :) !
b) Tang: I dont really care, I can clean it myself if i need
c) Don't care, hell you don't even need to finish it, just leave the black from the heat treat on
d) Yes
e) Yes, makes no difference to me
f) Would be nice :)

This hypothetical knife would probably be a use knife. But, if it wasn't my answers would be the same. I can take care of the knife myself, and i enjoy taking care of my knives.
 
A) I like carbon steel, and prefer it for most knives. The only real exception is knives that are meant to see lots of winter trail use, as rust may become an issue.

B) and C) A nice patina gives a blade character. I apply a forced patina to many of my users, for protection. It's also fun to watch a patina develop over time. Blueing looks nice, and I would consider it for a dedicated chopper - but, in my experience, it can leave a taste when cutting food, which is an issue for a bushcrafter or general-purpose outdoors knife.

D) Hard to answer - since I like a patina, I wouldn't want to polish the tang if one was developing. But I can see the attraction from a collector's perspective - a forced patina (especially a boiled vinegar one) is usually more uniform than a natural one.

E) I prefer a satin finish on blades, and on synthetic scales. For natural wood scales, I like a fine finish, just to bring out the texture and lustre of the wood.

F) It's a neat idea, for sure, and there may be a market for it. But, after years of maintenance and experimentation, I have my own collection of gear for polishing, re-touching, finishing, etc.

All the best,

- Mike
 
flitz polish works really well on the tangs and doesn't scratch scales noticeably so. I'd rather see rust forming on my tang and know the problem than have it hidden and undetected. I like a liner between the tang and the scale. I thing it is purty. Most carbons will do for me - but I feel really comfy and at home with 1095 and O1.
 
i prefer high carbon in a fixed blade, and even seek it out in folders (SAKs aside ofcourse) i'm not picky about steals, i love a nice patina, but most of the joy of carbon steels is seeing it develop through use so i would prefer it not come predone.
as for the little extras, it's a great little touch that is NEVER forgotten or gone undiscussed around here so i would so go for it (if cost permits ofcourse which is sounds like it does)
these steels are FAR less work that ppl think they are, and it is a shame it keeps ppl away from them.
 
A) What are your general thoughts on full-tang knives made of high-carbon/low alloy steel? (I'm currently working with 1084 but also have O1, 1095, 1080 and CPM3V in stock.)

Most of my knives are 1095 and O1. Love the steels.

B) Are you willing to put up with a bit of patina/pitting on the tang?

No worries. I like liners a lot though...

C) Would you prefer the tang and blade be blued or forced-patina'd to help prevent this?

If it is done, cool. I will either force one or let it develop through use.

D) Would you be OK with possibly needing to polish the tang from time to time, and put some scratches on the scales as a result?

My knives are users so this is not important.

E) Would you be OK with scales/blade that are left at a "satin" finish, say 800-grit, so cleaning the tang wouldn't ruin the finish?

Would love it.

F) Would you like to see a care-kit come with the knife? Such as a small bottle of light oil, a wad of 0000 steel wool for light cleaning and a sheet or two of the appropriate sandpaper for serious cleaning? Or do most of you already have that stuff?

I have it, but it is a great touch.
All said, where are the pics? :D
 
No pics yet, Rocky. I have a batch of several almost ready for HT.

Thank you all very much for your input and suggestions. You won't regret posting here, I promise. ;)
 
I'm pretty much in agreement with everyone else.

A) I prefer carbon steel.

B) If you use it a patina will come over time.

C) I'd rather it be left in the black or maybe a brushed finish. I can always force my own patina if I want but I'd rather have the option.

D) The only time I'd polish the tang is if I needed to remove rust...which means I wasn't taking care of it to begin with.

E) That would be fine.

F) I have all of that but if it doesn't add much to the price it's a nice touch.
 
One option with a hidden tang that you don't see much is to coat the tang while leaving the blade uncoated. This keeps that part of the knife protected and circumvents all the folks saying - I hate a coated blade. Not many people jump up saying - I hate a coated tang!!! You could leave a little coating in a nice line or some funky curve on the ricasso to convince the skeptics that you actually did coat the tang....

Just thinking outside. When I removed the coating on my RC-4, I left the coating on the tang for its protective value. Actually in thinking about it, even on this full tang knife, the coated tang in this case works nicely with the black linen mircata even when the blade is clean.
 
Most of my serious field knives are full tang carbon steel,

…and even though I don’t go crazy with maintenance, I have no problems with rust, though many of my blades do sport a well earned patina.


I would not over-think this issue too much my friend, build nice knives and people will buy them.


The fact that you’re making high carbon steel knives for the likes of us speaks of users, and us users seek out high carbon steel blades for there toughness and edge holding ability; those that demand stainless steel blades are a different breed.




Big Mike

”Scaring the tree huggers.”

Forest & Stream
 
It it tends to pit or rust, it's because it's a user, so I don't mind polishing/scratching it since it's probably all scratched already.

Same for the finish. I think a mirror finish on a bushcrafter is a loss of energy for the maker, since use will probably ruin that finish.

Whatever you do I don't recommend you do a selective blueing or protection. You will then create a oxygen concentration cell that will encourage the corrosion.

Oxygen concentration cells

Water in contact with the metal surface will normally contain dissolved oxygen. An oxygen cell can develop at any point where the oxygen in the air is not allowed to diffuse uniformly into the solution, thereby creating a difference in oxygen concentration between two points. Corrosion will occur at the area of low-oxygen concentration which are anodic.
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James_Terrio said:
The majority of what I make is aimed at guys like y'all. So I thought I'd ask here.

A) What are your general thoughts on full-tang knives made of high-carbon/low alloy steel? (I'm currently working with 1084 but also have O1, 1095, 1080 and CPM3V in stock.)

B) Are you willing to put up with a bit of patina/pitting on the tang?

C) Would you prefer the tang and blade be blued or forced-patina'd to help prevent this?

D) Would you be OK with possibly needing to polish the tang from time to time, and put some scratches on the scales as a result?

E) Would you be OK with scales/blade that are left at a "satin" finish, say 800-grit, so cleaning the tang wouldn't ruin the finish?

F) Would you like to see a care-kit come with the knife? Such as a small bottle of light oil, a wad of 0000 steel wool for light cleaning and a sheet or two of the appropriate sandpaper for serious cleaning? Or do most of you already have that stuff?

I also make hidden-tang knives, and knives made of tool and stainless steels. I'm just curious if there's interest in this type. Thank you for your time and answers. :)
Click to expand...

A.) I love full tang knives made of carbon steel. 1095 being my absolute favorite, HT'd right around 56-58. 1080 is acceptable too. Haven't used 01, but hear good things.

B.) Sure. As long as it won't break during hard use. My motto has always been: "She don't have to be pretty, she just has to know how to f--k."

C.) As long as there's a good seal to keep moisture out from between the scales and the tang; blueing/patina isn't a necessary for me. That comes with use.

D.) If I can live with scratches on the blade from all the crap I put one through, I can live with scratches on the scales.

E.) Satin finish is fine. I really dig leaving the forge marks on the top half of a knife, and only finishing the bottom half too.

F.)A care kit or starter kit would be neat, like Spooky said: as long as it don't jack the knife price up too much. I usually just use olive oil and an old cotton tee-shirt; and do routine gun/knife maintenance once a month whether they need it or not.

I like stainless if it's treated right but nothing so hard that I have to worry about it shattering if I need to chop a limb down for some reason or another. One of my favorite woods-bumming knives happens to be my little SAK Tinker. It's with me as an EDC in my right-hand pocket as I'm typing this.
 
Big Mike said:
I would not over-think this issue too much my friend, build nice knives and people will buy them.
Click to expand...

I confess I've been known to get caught up in details. :o

If I were to answer my own questions, I'd be squarely in line with most of you. I will say, I thought more folks would be interested in a blued or patina'd finsih... but now that I think about it, you guys are pretty DIY-oriented so it makes sense. And I'm thrilled to hear you don't require a super-fine finish, because hand-sanding gets old fast! :p

Thanks again for all your input.
 
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