Fulltime Makers: Fears and Satisfaction

Mark Williams

Mark Williams

Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2000
Messages
4,760
I guess since I was a very small child I've been facinated with knives. I made little knives from the lids of cans and electrical tape that I would throw at trees. The kids in the neighborhood used to procure our Mom's kitchen knives and head for the woods to explore. We would lash our blades to sticks and hunt evil bears and dragons, or each other usually.

The facination for the blade has always stayed strong throughout my life. I'll never forget the first time I heard the sound that a Puma folder made when it opened or closed.

Knife making is what I want to do for my fulltime profession. Would any fulltime guys like to tell of how they came to be fulltime makers? I know its the passion that leads us there, but how did this passion get you to the fulltime goal? What would you do differant? Any advice to new guys that you can offer to help new guys stumble a bit less. I want to take the plunge. Hows the water? I'm scared.

Mark
 
Hey Mark, mind if some of us post who are - like you - wanting to go full-time, yet still working day jobs?

I'm like you that I want to go f/t but I can't seem to get those bills down enough for me to make the plunge. I secretly pray my company takes a dive and I am forced into the ranks of the unemployed. Maybe then I can spin the wheel of life and take a chance on going f/t. My only concern is me getting bored with it, or losing interest. Right now, the fire burns very brightly, but that fire may sputter and die if I am forced to crank out one blade right after another.

I too would be interested in hearing what its like from the viewpoint of a f/t maker.
 
Mark -- I hope everything turns out and you get to do it full time. I'm also at a loss of direction. I don't plan on turning full-time or anything, but as a "hobby" I've hit this pretty hard and don't know where I'm going with it.
 
I would like to hear a good discussion from everyone. We can all learn something I'm sure. One thing that I have come to realize is that first of all. Waiting on life to happen is a big fat lie. I've been getting so frustrated lately trying to rationalize why I cant do this. I've talked myself into putting things on hold due to one reason or another. I started actually getting depressed over what I cant do. You know what. You are not waiting on life. When you get up in the morning and greet the new day. That IS your life. It's hard to put into words and I'm sorry to get all Tai Goo on everybody (that's a complement Tai) but due to a good slap in the face of "wake up moron , this is you're life " has hit me pretty hard as of late. Ahh to be 21, stupid, and fearless again. Nah, I'd floating in the middle of the Mediterrainian sea. Yuck:D

Mark
 
I know that feeling -- I get upset with myself sometimes because I believe I'm not up to par with my own standards. I can see a blade made by someone that's been knifemaking for 10 years and feel like my craftmanship is way under par and that it shouldn't be. I love to make the blades, but I don't want to burn out and I want to make the best knife possible. I get nervous every time I sell a blade because I worry if they will like it or not.

Plus, when things don't sell, that just doesn't help much. :grumpy: :D
 
I make why I believe are mediocre knives at this point so I am not ready to go fulltime yet, but I know that for me what I would need to do to get my knives to the level they need to be is go fulltime. I've just finished my teching certification, so I'll be a full-time knifemaker in the summers. That will be fine for a while. What I personally am doing between now and fulltime knifemaking is investing in real estate. I was a property manager while in college and learned firsthand the money that could be made in real estate. In 10 years I should have enough rental income to support me and my family comfortably so I can go fulltime into knifemaking. I should be 37-38 by then.

This is the path I've chosen. There are many paths to choose. I will make one comment on the fulltime makers I've known and seen - they always have multiple streams of income coming in. Tim Lively (I learned smithing from a student of his) makes knives, but has a video that he sells and teaches bladesmithing - and keeps an EXTREMELY low overhead on his knife shop. I wouldn't be surprised if he spends 20 bucks a year on materials...lol. Ed Fowler (don't know him personally, but I have his book and have read his stuff quite a bit) makes knives, but publishes articles and has a book that he is collecting royalties on. To be a fulltime knifemaker you gotta think like an independant businessman. I believe that the answer for going into fulltime knifemaking does not lie in a knifemaking book - it lies in a business/investing book.

Tim

P.S. How're your sales and marketing skills? ;)
 
Tim's probably onto something that most makers have other income sources. But what he doesn't realize is that book, video and magazine articles pay very little in reality so they really can't be counted like a regular job. I would think the real estate investment angle would be much more sound as an income stream strategy. Too bad this is a bad time to be investing in real estate.....:(

Life is a balance and is different for every person. Some can work in their shop being creative nearly every day and for others it may always be a part time thing and nothing more. Try to figure out what works for you, accept it and then live it.
 
i make knives for fun, not to sell so i can't comment specifically on knifemaking for a living...but i am someone who's "taken the plunge" on various occasions...i've always done what i wanted to do and i've fallen on my face more than once...had my fair share of business failures, but always did what i wanted...

here's the deal cowboy: you'll be dead in less than 100 years and it won't really matter to anyone, least of all yourself, what you did for a living while you were alive...for all you know, god forbid, you might be dead next week...for all any of us know, we have one chance, one very short life on this planet...when you come to your last day in this beautiful place, are you going to regret that you didn't spend more hours doing something you don't like and paying the bills? or will you regret the chances you didn't take?

hey, what's the worst that can happen? are you going to starve to death here in america? probably not - i'm assuming you've managed to avoid that fate thus far, so you already know how to keep yourself alive and pay the bills...worst comes to worst, you gotta' know you'll find a way...

life is short, fellas...i'm "only" 37 but man, i am realizing just how short the time i have left is...it's NOT worth spending on something you don't like...what's the point of being alive if you're not going to pursue your dreams? maybe you make it, maybe you don't...so what? it's the journey, not the destination...

of course, you gotta' smart about it...if you hope for any chance whatsoever for business success, you better have a good plan, a better back-up plan and enough self-awareness to know whether or not you've really got the cojones to make it happen...

knifemaking sounds to me like a very tough business...but living a live you don't love sounds a hell of a lot tougher...
 
Thank you Guimo, but I do have a few comments.

"But what he doesn't realize is that book, video and magazine articles pay very little in reality so they really can't be counted like a regular job."
Oh crap. Someone should have told my parents before they wrote, published and sold their series of 3 books. I won't tell you how much they made over the course of 7 years, but let's just say it's more than what their last house cost. Sure, they kept a "real job" in the meantime, but they only had to write the books once...and the books keep making money for them... BTW - ever notice how some books like Wayne Goddard's are created from magazine reprints (or at least much of the book)? That's even easier - he didn't even have to write a book! He just re-organized what he already wrote years ago and it keeps making money for him....

"Too bad this is a bad time to be investing in real estate....."
There is really no bad time, just bad places.

I don't mean to brag - I hope to encourage people. I'm nowhere near being able to live off my investments yet, but I'm on track. I just keep reminding myself that success is out there and with a little work, I'll find it. However, should I change my mind, failure is waiting to join me.

Tim
 
Fear of Failure. That's my big obstacle. Funny how a kid who only had like 4 kids to play with in my town growing up - and I was shunned being the only boy - can be afraid of failing at something. Its prbably the biggest reason I won't even attempt somethign unless I know I can do it and do it extremely well. This irritates my wife tremendously, because I have taken to throwing roadblocks up as to why I can't do something, rather than just going for it.

Mark, you are not alone feeling depressed and wanting something better. All my life I have worked in jobs as the low-man, the newb, the outcast, the young guy, the new guy, or the... whatever. Always on the outside, never getting anywhere unless I scrape tooth and nail and claw my way up. Nothing comes very easy to me. Dare I gloat should anything ever fall into my lap? NEVER! Bad Kharma!

Nope, just plug away at it, Bro. Make knives with all your heart. Make friends within the knifemaking world. Soon you will be full to the brim, and there will be nothing else left but to immerse yourself fulltime in your craft. The river of your life led you to where you are now. Unless there are falls ahead, ride it out!
 
My feeling is that, if you have a good job that has benefits ( ie, insurance, retirement, etc) stay with the job. The first couple years for me were very tough, the last couple have been better; I have zero debt, and pay my bills each month. Otherwise I dont have a lot of cash left over.
Keep in mind, when you work for yourself, you're the boss; with that comes the freedom to do what you want, but also a ton of responsiblity. You have to set schedules and follow them, you are the order proceeser ( incoming and outgoing ), the janitor, often a babysitter, mechanic, etc and you still have to make time to make knives. Going from working on a knife as a hobby on the weekend is a lot different than doing it 10 hrs a day, six days a week.
Be prepared to take a pay cut, even if you have a good backlog as a part timer, that backlog gets cut dramatically when you go full time. You'll have to start paying for health insurance, higher electric bills etc, while still paying the normal household bills.
That said, go for it if you feel strong enough about it. Even with all the bad that has come my way, I wouldnt change a thing. Being able to do what you love for a living is a true definition of wealth. Good luck - Charles
 
I wouldn't dream of going fulltime until my kids are grown and on their own -OR- my wife could replace the income I make now. Neither one is happening anytime soon and more often than not I don't even get to work on knives on the weekend. Owning a home means lots of upkeep and a wife and growing family requires more upkeep than that! However, I do what I can when I can, nothing stops you from learning whenever you get the chance. More than likely I'll be an old retired fart before I get to make knives fulltime, but wait, what am I thinking of, the way things are going right now I'll never get to retire!:D

By the way, who else is kicking themselves for not buying Kmart stock when they went through bankruptcy? A $2,000.00 investment then would have yielded over $60,000.00 now. And thats just in the time they reorganized, what was it, less than two years ago?
 
OK I'm gonna feel funny posting but, here goes. Tess and I just went full-time the beginning of this year. Actually she still tends bar down at the Legion two nights a week (last year I did the same). It is very stressful! It helps that we are a very low expense household. We don't go out much (if ever), our "vacations" ARE knife shows and raising our own food doesn't really hurt either plus, no cable, no 4-wheelers, no boat, no etc. You have to figure though, in any business, when you start to work for yourself it is a 24/7 job, no exagerations! Thank goodness Tess and I are comfortable just sitting together in silence because we usually are only talking knives and leather and that's it. If you love doing it, it's still work but, work you enjoy. I disagree with the attitude of after your gone who cares. I love the fact that after I'm gone there will be alot of people with knives I made that will pass them on and on. It's a form of living forever, not the first form I'd choose but, I'll take it. The best thing I can suggest is get into as many magazines/publications as you can and go to as many shows as humanly possible. People need to see you and your work. The more folks who know and like your work, the more will buy. We bought a house about 4 years ago (fix-er-upper) and just had our first child 7 months ago. Yes, it's a hell of a risk but, so is everything else. One of the things that makes me feel a tiny bit better is the fact that my wife's family almost all are self employed (mostly construction) and she says they all went through the same thing ($$$), so it's not just the knife business. Blade just had an article on Kenny S. and he even worked part time when he had too. If you gotta, you gotta but, if you want it bad enough you also gotta try. I hope that makes sense? Hey, it's not immpossible. I'm, mostly (first two years) self taught and I only ground my first blade three years ago. I hope this came out the way I meant it.
 
Well Ive been there (FT) and went back to work just part time because of the benefits. Im the kind of person that cant seem to overcome the business end of self-employment. There are so many costs and obligations to owning your own business that there seems to be no time to make knives. Actually there is time but what about sleep? I will tell you one thing this computer is a time consumer. We spend valuable time on here when we could be making something. Computers are almost neccesary but we waste time too. You will need to manage your time and make every move count. Im not a great businessman. I take too long and charge too little. I sure have some happy customers because of it though.

By far the most important thing about being a succesful knifemaker is to have an understanding wife.
 
"By the way, who else is kicking themselves for not buying Kmart stock when they went through bankruptcy? A $2,000.00 investment then would have yielded over $60,000.00 now. And thats just in the time they reorganized, what was it, less than two years ago?"

Don't kick yourself. Just look for the next one. History has a tendency to repeat itself with remarkable accuracy.

Tim
 
Mark,
Sorry for not responding to your post yet. It's something that needed lots of thought, and being a fulltime maker just before Christmas, there's not been alot of time for. I'll try tonight.
 
Originally posted by Bruce Bump
Well Ive been there (FT) and went back to work just part time because of the benefits. Im the kind of person that cant seem to overcome the business end of self-employment. There are so many costs and obligations to owning your own business that there seems to be no time to make knives. Actually there is time but what about sleep? I will tell you one thing this computer is a time consumer. We spend valuable time on here when we could be making something. Computers are almost neccesary but we waste time too. You will need to manage your time and make every move count. Im not a great businessman. I take too long and charge too little. I sure have some happy customers because of it though.

By far the most important thing about being a succesful knifemaker is to have an understanding wife.
Click to expand...
.
yeahup what Bruce said
I'm backing out of a 15 years engine a logging supply biz.
enough so I can call knife making full time.

BUT a big BUT there are
Thousands and Thousands of staving Blade makers out there.
Business sense #1, marketing #2 show your face #3,
they want to know who you are,,
knowing how to make knives helps a lot too..

I'm not saying you can't, this is for anyone thinking about it.

after razing the boys, the wife went back to school
and after 4 years is teaching steady,

with good credit and owing everyone
and so on and so on and on and on
I'll make it as a knife maker some day.:D

If I can get off from this computer
Bruce you hit that one on the head,,

But again nothing ventured nothing gained either.
if you want to eat make sure you have income..be it knives or the day job..
I'd say let your biz grow, it will tell you what to do
in time...I hope that helps some..
 
Take time to consider this.
If you have any type of career path going and leave it for say 3-5 yrs, then have to go back to it. What will the reaction be from a perspective employer be if you put down Knifemaker and have been out of the loop in your chosen field for 3-5yrs.
NEXT! As your Resume goes in the round file.
Trying to get back in the workforce after being self employed (Unless it is with a knife company) is damn near friggin impossible.
Ask me how I know this:D
 
Bruce Bump said " I take too long and charge too little."

This is a prime example of whats wrong with alot of us knife makers and why we make the lousiest businessmen on earth, and why going full time is so tough.
This gives me an idea for a poll!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top