Funny thing happened!

Swampgator,

The process of protecting "innocent" kids at every school is certainly not cheap. It would be far cheaper and more effective to seperate the problem cases. Then we could concentrate on the actual process of teaching the "innocent" kids at school.

Is it any less expensive to conduct extensive hearing and proceedures every time a kid decides to take a camera into school (yes I said camera). My nephew recently had a camera confiscated. He was on the school newspaper and he offended the staff by photographing the security team as they conducted a random search in his classroom. It seems that the partice now is for contracted security guards to randomly search entire classrooms, lockers, bookbags, and persons.

Yes, in the process of looking for guns, knives, drugs, etc. the system needs to also seize evidence of its own malpractice and incompetence. If you don't believe me then check the security codes at your kid's school.

I believe in due process and fairness more than I believe in just about anything else. Due process is not what we are teaching our kids in public school. Either this system fixes itself or we burn the whole thing down and rebuild a system that works.

The system, as it is set up now, works only to the benefit of all those great public servants that spent their entire day managing hearings and process while providing ZERO education to anyone.

Swampgator, what is the percentage of consulors + security + administrators to teachers in your school?

[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 11-04-2000).]
 
i always have a knife on me,when i go to school i have the tool logic card in m wallet.but one day recently i carried a whirlwind (it was clipped to my pocket before school and i forgot all about it).i noticed it there when i was walking down the hall.i couldnt decide what to do,give it to a police officer at the school,(YES-we DO have cops at our school) or just stick it in my coat pocket and dont tell anyone.thats what i did.no problems cuz no one knew i had it.besides i go to church with one of the LEO's,so i think he would have just kept it for me.
biggrin.gif
 
Swampgator, what is the percentage of consulors + security + administrators to teachers in your school?

Not2Sharp,

At our school we have one administrator, 20 teachers and no security unless needed. You are very correct that great monies are spent on the aftermath of the problems that happen in schools. That is why I think the money should be spent on solving problems at the elementary level before they become bigger problems. I don't know what the answer is to solving all our problems. Our school is considered one of the better ones and many teachers often try to transfer to our school. I don't think that there are simple or cheap answers. I do see your side of the situation but I still think that when a parent puts his or her child on a bus in the morning they expect them to be safe in our schools. All it takes is one looney kid with a weapon to change the lives so many people. Thanks for your input. Your points have made me reexamine my views.
 
Last year we had 2 security personnel at our school, this year we have 4 security and 1 cop. All the security do is carry around walkie talkies and pretend like they're doing something, they don't carry any knives or guns at all, they are overweight and aren't very menacing, it's pretty much a joke. I've watched drug deals in my school take place and my people show me their knives if they bring them (provided no faculty is around
wink.gif
) the security are pretty much their to tell you to go to class.

------------------
Cameron

011.gif
"It takes a killer...to stop a killer"
uriel.gif

A few of my balisongs
My Photopoint album
 
Swampgator,

The kid with a weapon scenario is a farce played for political gain. Your kids are the same kids that attend amusement parks, bowling alleys, public parks, and other congregation points. Are they any safer in school if its as dangerous to get to school, or as dangerous to live within the community.

Its probably more likely that a parent, or teacher, or one of the many security guards looses it and drives over a bunch of kids with their car. Columbine happened; and it happened because the staff, administration, students, and parents failed to address a clear and festering problem at that school.

So lets blame the guns, the knives, the entertainment industry, and everything and everyone else, except the staff, administration, students, and parents that were responsible for creating the mess.

 
i've noticed that the media is quick to blame the movie and music industry rather than their own kids.i really do NOT think that something like Coulmbine happens because a kid listens to Manson,or plays Doom,or watches Arnold Swartsen-however-you-spell-it movies.uh-uh.IMHO the Columbine shooting happened because the jocks were always phukking with them.wether they make themselves targets for harasment or not-they do not deserve the treatment they get.i see this stuff happening all the time at school,and i think to myself "self-if they decide to come in here with guns,then that guy right there is gonna be thew one to get shot first."
 
Not2Sharp
Granted that all that you have said is true, all that I'm trying to say is that there is no reason for a child to bring a knife or weapon to school. Why do they need one? They all have pencil sharpeners with razors in them sharper than any knife. That is not what school is all about. Elementary school is about teaching kids the 3 r's. It is also more than that. Teachers are also mandated to teach kids about fire prevention, child abuse, sexual abuse, self-esteem. All the things that they should have learned from their parents except for one thing-many of the kids don't have parents who are responsible enough. Their(the parents)additudes are that if someone messes withtheir child, the child should get them back. I realize that most of the knife cases are about innocent intentioned children who get the book thrown at them for bringing one to school. When kids are at amusement parks, etc. they are usually with an authority figure who can "adjust" their additudes in a way that schools and teachers are not allowed. I also wonder how many parents know what their kids bring to school every day? The few cases that happened in our school the parents did not know. I'll bet that most of the parents that this happens to don't even check their child's school bag. Their only duty is to wake them up and put them on the bus. Again, I just don't see the need for any child to bring or use a knife at school.
Thanks
 
Swampgator,

I have no disagreement about the knives, or guns. Neither should be allowed in school, and, if one does turn up, the parent should be held accountable and the item should be returned or disposed of as appropriate. My issue is with the extreme security measures, the search and siezures, and zero tolerance (zero judgement) policy.

These kids are our furture, treat them as we would like them to eventually treat others. Are we training these kids to submit to the harassment?

Here are my basic premise on our social institutions:
- The schools are there to teach
- Disciplinary problems are for
Corrections facilities.
- Extreme physical disabilities belong
with medical/special care givers
- Mental disability cases get
insitutionalized

If we identify the problem, correctly and early enough, then each of these departments will be able to work effectively, all of the students will get the attention they need, and the overall cost would be reduced. Lumping the entire population into a school building, blindfolding ourselves to the issues while repeating the mantra that all students are created equal, does a disservice to everyone.
 
Not2Sharp

Thanks for the discussion. I will consider what you have said. Respectfully yours, Swampgator of Louisiana
 
Swampgator, I used to carry a knife to school everyday. No need? I beg to differ. I used it to fix musical instruments for the orchestra, cut string and rope and other materials for art, trim the torn edges from ripped out notebook paper, cut my apple at lunch, open mail from when I check the post office box during my free period, help my teachers open boxes from UPS that were received at school, cut materials from when we were building simple capacitors. Not the mention that I also helped cut index cards during English classes when we were making flash cards to help study for the SAT test, use the tip to screw in a loose screw on my eyeglasses, cut heavy duty tape when the stereo committee had to tape some wires around the school, cut a plastic tie that was not going to be removed by hand when we needed to move some computer wires and they were being tied down (and I'll tell you right now that a blade smaller than 2" was going to take a bit of time to get this really thick plastic tie).

Can you do this with your pencil sharpener? Once the lead ripped out at the tip during an exam. Cheap pencil sharpener wouldn't cut it. Couldn't remove the material fast enough to get to the lead. I'm glad I had my Gerber knife. I fixed the pencil in 20 seconds. Especially since I was running out of time for the exam!

------------------
Chang and the Rebels of the East
(Southern Taiwan Shall Rise Again!)
taiwan.gif
 
Comrade Chang
I know you are a responsible knife user. My school has age ranges from 5-10 year olds. How many parents would let that age range use knives unsupervised at home? I have seen teachers use keys to open packages. Dumb laws which don't allow us to have them either. Knives are extremely useful. I can't really comment on jr. high and high school users. It has been years since I taught in a high school. Can you imagine the liability of a school system where a kid cut himself badly with a knife just trying to cut an apple? After the first lawsuit from some knife related injury, schools would probably ban them anyway. Teachers are also in a difficult position. If I see a child with a knife I have to report it or I would be liable for doing nothing if it was used on another student. If I see a child with bruises on his or her body, I could be liable for not reporting it to child welfare for a possible abuse case. If I hear a child say he wants to kill himself I have to report it to my principal or I would be held liable for knowing he or she said it and I did nothing if they carried through with the threat. Times have changed. Since knives are not allowed in schools at this time I have to think that the only reason a child would bring one is because he intends to use it on someone. I can't judge intent, but I can sure be blamed big time if I do nothing. I know that I can't convert many people to my point of view. I just want readers of my posts to understand that I am not against children using knives. I would just rather that they use them at home under the loving supervision of their parents. Schools are a learning place. Thanks
 
Swampgator, a lot of kids I know still carry knives to school despite the new rule that got put in last year. I chose to recently switch to a multitool because knives and pocket knives are not allowed, though multitools are not banned (a lot of classmates carry Leatherman Micra or other small multitools around and nobody cares). None of us bring the knives there with the intention of using it on someone. Just tools. I believe some kids should be allowed to carry pocket knives with blades under 3.5" in school. But you have to sign a liability release form (with parental concent and signature) for self injury caused by the knife. Also, if you are caught using it inappropriately or brandishing it as a weapon or even saying that you have a knife in a threatening manner (like in an argument)... you agree that there will be no exceptions, you are expelled. No record of violent behavior in school as well.

I think it is time for us to put some sensible policies back into school. I'm personally sick of being treated like a felon. It disgusts me whenever a teacher or school official has to escort me around when I need the knife and treats me like I'm a psychotic who randomly wants to stab people.

------------------
Chang and the Rebels of the East
(Southern Taiwan Shall Rise Again!)
taiwan.gif
 
BTW, I trust kids over the age of 5 with razor sharp knives. I teach them how to safely handle knives as well. I used to babysit some kids, about 5 and 10 years old. They both were allowed to handle my knives. I allowed them to cut stuff with them too. I taught them some things as well:

Do not run your finger down the blade. Test sharpness with something else, or brush your finger across the blade from the side, not down the blade.

Do not cut towards you when you need to cut something. Cut away.

Do not push too hard when you cut, it will cause you to lose control.

Do not play around with my knives. Do not swing it around or fool around with it, respect all knives as serious tools... just as you would not mess around with a chainsaw, you should not mess around with knives.

Of course, you have to see how mentally mature and responsible the kid is. Some kids I wouldn't trust with a pair of safety scissors. Others, I would trust with my SOCOM and I let one kid open and close and use my UDT automatic (before I traded it).

------------------
Chang and the Rebels of the East
(Southern Taiwan Shall Rise Again!)
taiwan.gif
 
Chang,
I am all argued out. OK, lets have a room full of kids with folders. There would be so much flicking going on no one would would be able to concentrate on their lessons.
biggrin.gif
 
that room full of kids with balisongs would be the knife choir room
biggrin.gif


This has been a very intelligent, well discussed........discussion (for lack of a better term). I have been debating for a while whether or not I should consult with the administration at my school to absolutely confirm what is in our "code of conduct" handbook, it says that we can have a fixed blade with a blade 3" and under and any other knife with a blade 3.5" and under (does that mean I can carry my BM 30S Bali-Song with no negative repercussions(sp?)??) All throughout the day I tell myself "Now where is the knife when I need it??".

A question just popped into my head:

If at school I had a knife in my pocket (of legal size and approved by the administration) and I got into a fist-fight and I never drew my knife, would they confiscate it??



------------------
Cameron

011.gif
"It takes a killer...to stop a killer"
uriel.gif

A few of my balisongs
My Photopoint album
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top