Future of knife steels

D

DangerZone98

Joined
Dec 7, 2019
Messages
3,561
Based on information and examples we have today, what do you think is the next feasible step for supersteels like M390, Elmax, and 3V? Can we expect even more edge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness than we have today?
 
if its going to keep getting
more and more expensive.
i dunno if that makes
good business sense.
perhaps it's a while away yet
but btw things are going
with industry;
i won't be surprise to
see some future developments
regarding the use of 3-d printing.
 
This is actually all about marketing. If the knife manufacturers don't develop something "new and improved" they won't have much to sell.

Can't imagine too many of the big time buyers here purchasing the same old steel in a new knife just because a new version has a slightly different handle.

But if a new knife has a slightly different handle and a newly named "super steel" that they have been waiting for possibly for a year or two, it's a whole new ball game.

Manufacturers tout the latest and greatest and raise their prices accordingly. New buzz is generated by a new knife, and the manufacturer has something new to talk about at SHOT and in the magazines. Bored clients with disposable income run out and buy because if it has a little different handle and the newest super steel it justifies it being a whole new knife. The old knife was good, but the new knife is much better... finally!

Apply, shampoo, rinse, repeat. The cycle of re-marketing existing products.

Robert
 
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There will always be a market for "lesser" (note quotes) steels such as the 10xx carbon steels, 440, 425 and 7CR whatever Mo/MoV to 13CR Whatever Mo/MoV stainless steels.
The average knife buyer does not know and does not care what the blade steel is. They see a knife as a tool to cut with.
I don't need a "super steel" for what I use a knife for. Truth to tell, I doubt many really do.
1095, 440A, and 420HC with a good heat treat is good enough to skin and gut a few deer or a couple elk/moose without having to stop and re-sharpen while working, and they are easy to sharpen afterwards. What more do I need?
No matter what steel is used, it will eventually need re-sharpened. Personally, I'd rather have a blade that is easy to sharpen without needing expensive SiC or diamond stones, or some powdered system. (a powered system isn't going to be very handy out in the field where there is no electricity)
No doubt there will come a point that a steel will be developed that the manufacturers won't use because they have to replace the tooling after one or two blades, and that consumers would throw away when dull because they cannot sharpen it.
Something along the line of a ceramic blade, that isn't as fragile/brittle, perhaps.
I suspect that even if lightsabers were a reality, there would be those seeking to "improve" them ... a fraction of a millimeter diameter instead of a centimeter ... able to cut every known substance ... be unaffected by a mirror or highly polished surface ...all while using a small fraction of the power earlier lightsabers required ...
 
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its really up to who's making the knife, CRK will push s45, Spyderco will go with their new steel maybe to replace vg10, but most knives I like or custom go with 154, CTS-XHP, m390, I would like to see more tool steels knives though
 
DangerZone98 said:
Got nothing on my fancy 420J knife. :D
Click to expand...
Well let's think for a moment... isn't 420j a bit more corrosion resistant ? Could be wrong on that... but a good company properly heat treating it would provide a lower cost alternative . Certainly can't knock it if it's made well.
 
1. I don't know.

2. I don't own : M390, 20CV, Maxamet, Cruwear, Vanax, Z-finit, 3V, and S45VN among others. Most of these steels are usually out of my budget despite that some can be found under $100 on some models.

3. Like others have said, I'm totally content with VG10, 154cm, D2 (I could carry a Rat 1 in D2 and be set for life tbh), 14C28N, S30V, and S35VN. As we all know, it's not just about the steel, the heat treat is so important.
 
I've always liked knives, used knives, and owned knives but they've always been low level and disposable. About 6ish months ago I discovered why those "expensive knives" are expensive and got hooked. I now own many knives featuring safe one-handed operation.

Regarding the steel...

I have to say that I'm incredibly disappointed by the whole steel/knife industry with regard to the edge retention characteristics of S30V/S35VN & M390, 20CV, and 204P as delivered by ALL production knife companies.

I feel that these steels are over marketed and over hyped to the point where they're misrepresented by some. The only thing that's super with these "super steels" is their marketing.

Cardboard is the primary thing that I cut

Prior to EDCing a knife, I've always approached cardboard breakdown like a big dumb gorilla and just ripped it apart with my hands. It works just fine.

Changes at my work now cause me to have to break down enormous boxes of very heavy duty cardboard.. Dry/cold air with knuckles vs a box can draw blood at times, which is inconvenient in a professional shirt and tie environment.

So I started EDCing small knives to cut down boxes which is where my edge retention journey began... what a mess.

I was disappointed with D2 but it's cheap so no problem, I upgraded to S30V/S35VN, and what a disappointment. So I bought some M390/20CV... lol... I tried multiple examples/brands of each... I'm not happy.

When I spend extra money on an "upgraded" knife with a better "super-steel" like M390/20CV, I expect a noticeable increase in performance and I certainty expect super results.

A well executed low level steel, such as 420HC on a $30-$50 Kershaw or Buck will literally out cut some examples of production M390. Meanwhile, most M390/20CV/204P has similar edge retention to S30V, which doesn't mean much.

With cardboard specifically, in a lot of examples, "mid-level" steels such as 12c27 and 14c28n, and even budget steels like AUS-8, will be competitive with or even outperform the "super" powder steels mentioned above.

Seeing as how Kershaw can deliver M390/20CV that's executed roughly as well as any production company for ~$80, dont tell me that those steels cost more to work with than S30V on a production level. It's all just marketing.

I care about results. I dont buy pocket jewelry. There's literally $500+ knives that look pretty and operate like a dream, but would lose a cardboard cutting competition to a $30 Cold Steel Tuff Lite in AUS-8.

For the future of knife steels, I suspect we'll see more marketing hyperbole. They'll continue treating us like mushrooms (feeding us crap and keeping us in the dark) and people will continue spending hundreds of dollars on fancy knives that have low-level performance.

For now I'll stick with non-stainless tool steels to meet my edge retention needs and will completely avoid the "knife steels"
 
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I agree with submicron quite a bit, that's why I don't see my leek in 14c28n being replaced anytime soon -> the geometry cuts like an opinel :)
(speaking of which those are amazing value, but I like 1 handed opening)

I'd like to see what can really be done with high nitrogen and low carbon steels - there should be a lot of advances in this area over the next few years

specifically - think of m4 but with nitrogen replacing carbon ... that should be interesting : )
 
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