FYI USPS insurance change

[DaveH]

FYI for those that use USPS to ship.

There's now an under $200 form and an over $200 insurance form. Anything under $200 doesn't require a signature, think "dump-and-run".

Adding signature confirmation is about the same cost as insuring for $201.

 

[mycroftt]

Note that the cost of insurance for those "under $200" pieces decreases significantly (as much as a $.90 discount) and each piece will receive a delivery scan. This is not really a "dump and run" scenario. Add Delivery Confirmation and you will actually be getting more services for less money. Insurance is definitely one of the better deals for the consumer that came out of the latest round of postal price adjustments. Bulk insurance went down $.80 per piece too. The price reduction is related to the reduced cost of not getting a signature - similar to the "under $50" version of insurance before these changes.

When you add the Signature Confirmation, you add back in the attributable cost of the carrier ringing the doorbell and getting the signature, so the savings go out the window when you put the costs back in. Personally, I think I would go for the signature if something was valuable enough to warrant getting insurance in the first place.

 

[DaveH]

I imagine what happened is some accountant type said "Hey, the majority of packages shipped are under $200, without a signature, they can't make a claim and we'll refuse to honor the insurance. Therefore insurance is pure profit!"

 

[Ludwig]

hmmm this explains why my latest package from USPS was just left in my mailbox

I definitely asked for insurance and was curious as to why I didn't have to sign

 

[mycroftt]

I imagine what happened is some accountant type said "Hey, the majority of packages shipped are under $200, without a signature, they can't make a claim and we'll refuse to honor the insurance. Therefore insurance is pure profit!"

Pretty close!

According to the testimony, available publicly on the Postal Regulatory Commission website, the indemnity portion of the attributable costs was very small compared to the costs of accepting and delivering the insured mail. The decision was to lower the price by taking out the delivery portion of the cost - so no more ringing the doorbell, waiting for someone to answer, etc. The lower price is supposedly more attractive to most mailers, and those who want a signature can still get one if they want.

 

[Gravelface]

Take the signature route!!!!! I just went through this.....I sent out a package insured for 775......the package was scanned as delivered. My friend NEVER GOT IT. I called the post office and asked them for a signature card....obviously they couldn't produce it so I was able to file a claim..6 months later I was paid for my "delivered" package!

NEVER COMPROMISE ALWAYS GET A SIGNATURE!!!!!

I agree about them making it difficult to make claims now.

Dump and Run....this is about as accurate as a description for this new policy!

 

[Robocarullo]

Those sly sob's...instead of making sure that the employees follow proper procedure get signatures, and are disicplined when they screw up they change policy and make a new form so they don't have to keep paying out on insurance claims. I have had insured packages that required a sig stolen before this change (thats what happens when packages are left on your steps when you live in a city). Oh well at least there is still sig confirmation I'm not 100% on this but I think that a package that is insured for less than 200- that is left on a step/in a mailbox is not covered if stolen after the carrier drops it off.


Chris

 

[on_the_edge]

To be clear, "signature confirmation" is now different than "delivery confimation". Delivery confirmation does NOT require a signature. And YES, they do leave it on your sidewalk and go. I just got @ $900 worth of knives just sitting out by my front door. I called them on it and their response was, "we have no way of knowing the value of a package's contents. The package was delivered, and that is what delivery confirmation is for." My response was, "And it will still be 'delivered' even if someone walks away with it?" "Yes."

Whatever

 

[mycroftt]

Take the signature route!!!!! I just went through this.....I sent out a package insured for 775......the package was scanned as delivered. My friend NEVER GOT IT. I called the post office and asked them for a signature card....obviously they couldn't produce it so I was able to file a claim..6 months later I was paid for my "delivered" package!

NEVER COMPROMISE ALWAYS GET A SIGNATURE!!!!!

I agree about them making it difficult to make claims now.

Dump and Run....this is about as accurate as a description for this new policy!

I agree with the Always Get A Signature policy. I don't know for sure but I believe that the carriers batch-scan several parcels in advance rather than doing delivery scans at the time of delivery of each parcel, and that's why there are delivery scans for parcels that never ended up getting delivered.

Dump and Run may be an accurate description of the policy but "new" is not accurate. This is the way parcels valued at under $50 have been delivered for decades, in fact since so long ago that the original $50 limit was much more valuable in those days than the $200 is today.

 

[mycroftt]

Those sly sob's...instead of making sure that the employees follow proper procedure get signatures, and are disicplined when they screw up they change policy and make a new form so they don't have to keep paying out on insurance claims. I have had insured packages that required a sig stolen before this change (thats what happens when packages are left on your steps when you live in a city). Oh well at least there is still sig confirmation I'm not 100% on this but I think that a package that is insured for less than 200- that is left on a step/in a mailbox is not covered if stolen after the carrier drops it off.


Chris

I would review the publicly available testimony of the pricing witness in the R-2006-1 rate case litigation before making the claim that something other than consideration of the attributable costs had anything to do with lowering the insurance rates. The new form contains a barcode so the piece can be scanned, and that would have been done whether they decided to lower the rates or not.

 

[mycroftt]

To be clear, "signature confirmation" is now different than "delivery confimation". Delivery confirmation does NOT require a signature. And YES, they do leave it on your sidewalk and go. I just got @ $900 worth of knives just sitting out by my front door. I called them on it and their response was, "we have no way of knowing the value of a package's contents. The package was delivered, and that is what delivery confirmation is for." My response was, "And it will still be 'delivered' even if someone walks away with it?" "Yes."

Whatever

If someone sent you $900 worth of knives and they didn't insure it, they like to take chances greater than the ones I would be willing to take! I would have insured it so it would have required a signature and wouldn't be just left on the doorstep. Your expectation that the Postal Service would safeguard your parcel, when the sender has not instructed them to do so or paid for that service, might not be completely reasonable.

 

[Gravelface]

I have had.....MANY transactions...and to this date, this was the only one...so overall I am very pleased with the Post Office....as far as the Dump and Run..I was referring to the new 200 limit. The $50 insurance didn't even get a slip.

 

[on_the_edge]

If someone sent you $900 worth of knives and they didn't insure it, they like to take chances greater than the ones I would be willing to take! I would have insured it so it would have required a signature and wouldn't be just left on the doorstep. Your expectation that the Postal Service would safeguard your parcel, when the sender has not instructed them to do so or paid for that service, might not be completely reasonable.

The package came from the Busse Combat Company Store. As I am sure you can guess, they send out many more parcels than any single person could ever do. I don't know whether there was insurance on the package or not, although there was no obvious, external sign of it, but then again maybe the insurance label came off (???). What I do know is that every other package I have ever received from Busse, without exception, has required a signature. Seems odd that suddenly Busse has changed its shipping practices. More than likely, Busse was blindsided by a change in USPS policy that now makes inadequate those shipping procedures Busse used in the past.

Nevertheless, this is NOT a Busse thread or a Busse vs. USPS thread. I am sure that as time goes on, we will all be hearing more about these same issues.

 

[mycroftt]

The package came from the Busse Combat Company Store. As I am sure you can guess, they send out many more parcels than any single person could ever do. I don't know whether there was insurance on the package or not, although there was no obvious, external sign of it, but then again maybe the insurance label came off (???). What I do know is that every other package I have ever received from Busse, without exception, has required a signature. Seems odd that suddenly Busse has changed its shipping practices. More than likely, Busse was blindsided by a change in USPS policy that now makes inadequate those shipping procedures Busse used in the past.

Nevertheless, this is NOT a Busse thread or a Busse vs. USPS thread. I am sure that as time goes on, we will all be hearing more about these same issues.

There was no change in the USPS policy for packages worth $900 so you're probably right that there was either some confusion about the new policies or the label may have fallen off. The only change is for those packages under $50 which never received a signature and still don't but now have a scannable barcoded label, and those from $50.01 to $200 which used to require a signature but now don't but use that same scannable label as the under $50.

A LOT of knife purchases (but probably not many Busse's ) are going to fall into that $50 to $200 range and they will no longer get a signature for delivery where previously they did get a signature, so all the folks here who deal through the mail should be aware of this change: If you insure it for $200 or less and you want a signature, you have to ask for signature confirmation and pay an extra $2.10 at the time you mail it.

 

[PSU]

Most of the packages that I send/receive have a value of <$200. When I ship a package I almost always want to have verification that a package arrived in the hands of its intended recipient. The only way that I can verify delivery (when shipping via USPS) is when a signature is required upon delivery. For me, this verification usually results from using Signature Confirmation or Insurance. Insurance was a good way of killing 2 birds with 1 stone: it requires a signature and it "insures" the contents of the package.

The post office is no longer providing delivery verification (i.e. a signature) for <$200 insured packages. I can appreciate the fact that this change may have been necessary but it makes me wonder how the post office going to process claims that fall into this category? Will they just take my word for it if I claim that my insured $199 package didn't arrive?

There is most likely some truth in this post...

I imagine what happened is some accountant type said "Hey, the majority of packages shipped are under $200, without a signature, they can't make a claim and we'll refuse to honor the insurance. Therefore insurance is pure profit!"

 

[DaveH]

same scannable label as the under $50.

Actually the two new forms are different, both old forms e invalid now.

Will they just take my word for it if I claim that my insured $199 package didn't arrive?

No they won't, as there is no proof they haven't been delivered. What this amounts to is "open season" for postal employees to steal packages. Probably that's not what was intended, but that's what it amounts to.

 

[mycroftt]

Actually the two new forms are different, both old forms e invalid now.

No. Just as I said, the under $50 parcels now have a scannable label when they previously only had an oval stamp, and the $50.01 to $200 parcels use the same label as the under $50. Essentially, $50 is no longer a significant amount and the breaking point for no signature vs. signature is bumped up to $200. The "under $200 - no signature" form is on a black background and is form 3813; the "over $200 - with signature" form looks similar but is on a blue background and is form 3813-P.

No they won't, as there is no proof they haven't been delivered. What this amounts to is "open season" for postal employees to steal packages. Probably that's not what was intended, but that's what it amounts to.

Thank you for your ignorant condemnation of the three quarters of a million postal employees who continued to serve America on the front lines of the terrorist anthrax attacks, placing their own lives at risk to protect the ongoing commerce of the United States. They deserve better than that and you should retract that ridiculous statement. Entry level postal workers stand to earn around a million and a half dollars in their career and collect another million in pension benefits. How many of them do you really think would risk that for your POS knife?

Each piece receives a delivery scan when it is delivered. Absence of a delivery scan is prima facie evidence that the piece was never delivered.

 

[mycroftt]

Most of the packages that I send/receive have a value of <$200. When I ship a package I almost always want to have verification that a package arrived in the hands of its intended recipient. The only way that I can verify delivery (when shipping via USPS) is when a signature is required upon delivery. For me, this verification usually results from using Signature Confirmation or Insurance. Insurance was a good way of killing 2 birds with 1 stone: it requires a signature and it "insures" the contents of the package.

The post office is no longer providing delivery verification (i.e. a signature) for <$200 insured packages. I can appreciate the fact that this change may have been necessary but it makes me wonder how the post office going to process claims that fall into this category? Will they just take my word for it if I claim that my insured $199 package didn't arrive?

They have never gotten signatures for parcels insured for under $50. Now that amount is $200. The only things that have changed are the number (from 50 to 200) and the fact that now every piece is scanned at delivery. Claims will be processed just the same as they have always been processed.

 

[DaveH]

Thank you for your ignorant condemnation of the three quarters of a million postal employees

So you're saying that no packages have even been stolen by a postal employee? No package ever will be stolen? No signature now at $200 is even larger enticement to take a package then before. You don't think that will increase the number of packages stolen?

Claims will be processed just the same as they have always been processed.

Maybe, but I really doubt it. The new cutoff puts all the risk on the person shipping <200. Scan means nothing for the person waiting for the package, I've had packages delivered and not scanned, scanned and not delivered, scanned and delivered to the wrong address.

I predict scanning will be used to deny claims, eg: item was scanned at delivery so therefore you can't make a claim is wasn't.

 

[mycroftt]

So you're saying that no packages have even been stolen by a postal employee? No package ever will be stolen? No signature now at $200 is even larger enticement to take a package then before. You don't think that will increase the number of packages stolen?

Sure, some packages are stolen. There are crooks in every business, but there aren't that many in the USPS. It's too good a job to blow by doing something stupid. I question your belief that no signature will lead to more thefts. Think about it: the packages will be labelled with a tag that clearly identifies the package as containing low value goods. The tag effectively says "the stuff in here is not worth very much" - now why in God's name do you think that will entice someone to steal it? Do you envision somebody thinking "Wow, I know that this parcel contains something that isn't worth much so maybe I'll risk my $2.5 million career by stealing it. Forget about those other parcels that I can tell are much more valuable - I want this one that isn't worth a damn." Frankly, I'm just not following that line of reasoning.

Maybe, but I really doubt it. The new cutoff puts all the risk on the person shipping <200. Scan means nothing for the person waiting for the package, I've had packages delivered and not scanned, scanned and not delivered, scanned and delivered to the wrong address.

I predict scanning will be used to deny claims, eg: item was scanned at delivery so therefore you can't make a claim is wasn't.

I think you're right on all these points. If I have to mail something insured for less than $200 I will absolutely add Signature Confirmation. I think the biggest dangers of no-sig insurance are delivery to the wrong house or the parcel is left on the porch and somebody steals it. Getting a signature should help on both counts.