G-10 v. Zytel

I like zytel better because its on cheaper knives. If only knives with g-10 were cheaper i would probalbly like it more.:(
 
Here's what I've learned over the years:

FRN is tough and it can withstand impacts and flexing probably better than nearly any other knife handle material used today.
Alot of modern pistols, like the famous Glock, use similar polymers.
On the downside, it can stretch and tear over time, especially around the pivot pin.
And because it has less rigidity, you loose a little cutting performance when compared to more rigid handled knives.
It also does not hold screws very well as it strips out rather easily.
If you add steel liners to FRN you will solve nearly all of its shortcomings.

G-10 is tough too, but in my opinion, also over-rated.
It has less flexibility than FRN, which is good for rigidity, but makes it more likely to chip or crack.
It also does not hold screws very well and can strip out easily.
Adding steel liners also solves most of G-10's problems, except the possibility of chipping upon impacts.

When you look at "cost vs performance", I think steel (or titanium) lined FRN is the smartest way to go, and I think we will see more of it in the future.

Already we are seeing many go this direction, like Spyderco's Endura 4 and Delica 4 and their D'Allara series.

Just my 2 cent's worth,
Allen.
 
The G10 in chinese knives may not be that - It could be a local variant of FRN known as nylon 6, molded to simulate the texture. I know of one manufacturer who isn't hiding that fact, and prices accordingly. They think there is little functional difference and apparently made the choice for production costing. The folder has liners to take advantage of making it with a liner lock....

One linerless FRN knife I carried in the past had so little rigidity it cold flowed when clipped in my pocket and chafed the blade. I now relate FRN as "cheap" compared to G10 and expect a significant price difference. I certainly won't pay over $50 for one - especially when the grip is molded so inexpensively.

Anyone heard how much an FRN handle really costs? There seems to be a black hole when pricing that. Gerber's LST used to sell for $11 wholesale. Pushing more material into a larger mold doesn't raise cost significantly. I guess a FRN grip could be put out for about a dollar in volume.
 
....had so little rigidity it cold flowed when clipped in my pocket and chafed the blade.
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with the term "cold flowed", could you elaborate?
 
tirod3 said:
The G10 in chinese knives may not be that - It could be a local variant of FRN known as nylon 6, molded to simulate the texture.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the heads-up; I hadn't heard of that, but I can't say I'm surprised.

I recently picked up an M-Tech folder (ya ya ya, I know), just to see how the Chinese knives are these days. The handles sure seem like real G-10 to me, but I'll have to check it more throughly when I get home tonight.

tirod3 said:
Anyone heard how much an FRN handle really costs? There seems to be a black hole when pricing that. Gerber's LST used to sell for $11 wholesale. Pushing more material into a larger mold doesn't raise cost significantly. I guess a FRN grip could be put out for about a dollar in volume.
Click to expand...
As I explain above, the material itself is very cheap; the tooling, however, is not. It's a killer for small production runs (one reason you don't see custom knives with molded handles), but for large manufacturing runs, that initial set-up cost is pretty insignificant.

So to answer your question, the cost of an FRN handle depends almost entirely upon how many handles you're making!

I know at least one guy around here *koff*Sal Glesser*koff* has some hard numbers, but I'm pretty sure that's a closely-held trade secret... ;)
 
tirod3 said:
The G10 in chinese knives may not be that - It could be a local variant of FRN known as nylon 6, molded to simulate the texture. I know of one manufacturer who isn't hiding that fact, and prices accordingly. They think there is little functional difference and apparently made the choice for production costing. The folder has liners to take advantage of making it with a liner lock....
Click to expand...

As they are "Made in China"....what about the Smith&Wesson linerlock knives that come with G10 handles?

Do the Smith&Wesson handles consist of "real G10" or is it a local Chinese FRN variant, considering the quite low prices of S&W knives in the USA - especially when compared to the much higher prices of S&W knives in Germany.

Andy
 
I've got the M-Tech and it's one of the most comfortable knives to hold that I've come across. That doesn't mean anything, but a lot of these companies are doing okay on the build. Where they're failing, though, is in blade material. Either they honestly don't know what best suits the consumer or they just want to go for the cheapest blade material they can get away with, no one seems to know.

I never thought of G10 as being terribly expensive, but I sure wish there was a way to tell real from simulated. First we had simulated wood, then polymers, now simulated polymers.

*Sigh!*
 
My last purchase is a Camillus Heat. It feels just perfect in my hand, even more than my SERE or my Manix; the only thing I'd change are the Zytel scales. I think it would be great to have a G-10 version of this model to bridge the gap between the Zytel/AUS-8 "Heat" & the Titanium/S30V "Dominator".
 
Cold Flow: a tendency of nylon to slowly deform in shape due to pressure over time. Like a glass rod slowly bending by the force of gravity, although I don't know if nylon can be considered a stiff fluid at room temperature like glass.

Nylon belted tires did it in the '70's until warmed up, sometimes 3-6 blocks in the winter.

The knife in question returned to its formed state when I quit carrying it. All other EDC's I carried with FRN have liners, which I take as the industry's answer to FRN's flexibility and expense - it's inexpensive enough to back with a small metal blanking to cut down consumer resistance, said blank to allow threading, a liner lock, etc., which FRN can't handle. :D
 
though zytel/FRN will work just fine i prefer G10 for the simple reason that zytel/FRN just looks cheap to me.
 
Originally Posted by Confederate
As long as G10 has something you can tack it to, it's great. But alone it's not enough

I thought Strider framelocks were made with one side a linerless G10 slab.Aren't they generally considered some of the strongest folders made?
 
I like the material that Benchmade Griptilian handles are made from. Though it uses a different plastic than Zytel, I imagine they are close cousins. Many of the Zytel handles I have seen look very cheap and have a slippery feel. The only problem I have found with some G-10 handled knives is that the G-10 is left with sharp edges. This can be very uncomfortable to hold. This is a design flaw though, and not an inherent problem with G-10.

Having owned a few knives with G-10 handles, and having dropped one or more of those knives that landed handle first on concrete, I can say that I have never had G-10 chip or break. For that matter, it never even ended up with a mark.
 
mmarkh said:
Originally Posted by Confederate
As long as G10 has something you can tack it to, it's great. But alone it's not enough

I thought Strider framelocks were made with one side a linerless G10 slab.Aren't they generally considered some of the strongest folders made?
Click to expand...

I thought STRIDER knives were changing manufacture to Zytel slabs instead of G10.....

..... just kiddin'
 
Buck Strider Tarani SBT can be had that way. The checkering could make a good expedient horseshoe rasp. Maybe they meant these for Afghanistan.
 
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