Galvanized Metal?

K

KrabbyKakes

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Jun 22, 2013
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Does anyone know if Valspar Paint Cans are galvanized? I am making a simple coal forge with a metal bucket and some plaster of paris/sand insulation. I was planning on going to Lowes and picking up some supplies but I was unable to find if they were galvanized. Or, does it matter that it is galvanized because it will be insulated by the PoP/Sand mix? I was thinking about covering the rim and a couple of inches of the exterior with the mix to protect from any ambient heat but I don't know it that will suffice. I was always told to never burn treated wood or galvanized metal so I wanted to make sure.


-Kris
 
I have no idea if this cans would be galvanized or not, however I think you may have an issue with the plaster of Paris and sand. I would think that the pop would likely not hold up well to the heat, but I could be wrong. I have seen guys use ground kitty litter but I think some refractory fireplace or boiler cement may be a better option.
 
Well I got the idea off of a video on YouTube where this guy made a mini blowtorch forge with a soup can and plaster of paris mixed with sand. It held up to a direct torch flame and the forge got hot enough to forge steel with. I plan on using charcoal and a homemade set of bellows and I don't know if that will be hotter than a torch.
 
If you are useing a normal paint can,you will be fine.Just make sure you have good ventilation.Don't hover on the first burn.Good Ventilation is the key.
Eddie
 
Ok. It'll be outside and i might just put a fan for some extra wind. All materials came in today except my steel. Does anyone know if Usaknifemaker.com ships long pieces of steel seperately?
 
I recently made an H/T forge from a paint can and it worked awesome. are you planning to use something like kaowool for the insulation before the pop/sand ?
 
I'll try to next time. These are gifts and this forge is mainly for a quick, easy heat treat. I am thinking about getting a Knifemakers membership and selling on here and when I do that, I'll probably get some.
 
I actually returned my original supplies. I decided just to buy some bricks, stack them up and dump charcoal in it. If I ad an air source, it should work just as fine but saved me about $35. :)
 
I bought a galvanized flange for a wheel forge. The wheel rim also has some paint on it, and the bolts I'll be using probably also have some sort of coating. I'll put it all together, then take it out into the woods and build a big bonfire around it and on top of it, then go wait upwind a couple hundred feet. That should take care of all the crap on it. I'll come back when the fire has burnt down. Then I'll set it up with the blower and charcoal and a wooden box with sand in it to contain it.

I used 2 inch pipes. The parts were the flange, a 2 inch fully threaded section, an elbow, and a 12 inch threaded piece. All black iron except the flange, which they didn't have in black iron. total will run you about 35 bucks at Lowes or Home Depot, pretty decent.

edit: Actually, on second thought, I might acid etch the galvanized section (I think I have some muriatic acid) and use paint remover on the wheel. which is the better method?

edit #2: Actually, I drilled the wheel tonight and bolted it together, so I think I'll just throw it into a bonfire because it's just too much effort to take apart to do the acid etch on just the flange.
 
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While most all fumes are not good to breathe, many people over worry about places that are not in the flames. The surface will have to get red hot to vaporize the galvanizing. The zinc won't melt until it is around 800F. If the forge or a fitting in the tuyere ( pronounced two-your, BTW) gets that hot, something is very wrong with your forge pan insulation.
Look at the vent pipe coming from your boiler or water heater - Yep, its galvanized. It gets plenty hot, but no one worries about that.

I think Plaster of Paris and sand is a poor insulation. Good insulating fire clay is cheap and easily purchased. Check a boiler repair/supply. They may give you enough for free.
(I hate to say it today, but my first forge was insulated with refractory cement and powdered asbestos given to me by a ship yard worker.)

Now, as to the forge body choice, sturdy round pieces of plain steel tubing and pipe can be found in almost any scrap yard. Other choices are a piece of 8" stove pipe from a hardware or fireplace store. A little looking around may find a piece of tri-wall chimney pipe. Other choices may be chimney flue liner or clay flower pots.

I also highly recommend building a brake drum forge over a paint can forge.

I have posted many times before about the common misunderstanding between zinc poisoning (caused by elemental zinc, and very, very, rare in humans) and metal fume fever caused by burning/welding on galvanized metal ( white zinc-oxide smoke). While it is bad to breathe any fumes, the zinc fumes will not kill you. You may feel a bit sick, and need to get fresh air and some rest, but you will not die from any normal exposure.
The internet is full of stories and cautions about dying an agonizing and fairly quick death from breathing zinc fumes. Almost all are based on nothing but internet stories told by others, who heard them from someone, etc. Even doctors have heard these stories so many times that many believe them to be true. Poinsettia leaves are a classic example of this. Nearly everyone in the USA believes they are deadly poisonous and that kids and pets die yearly because of these Christmas plants. In truth they are absolutely harmless.

What the heck, here is one of my older posts on the subject:

Metal fume fever is not fatal. It is often confused with zinc poisoning, which is a problem with animals, but a rare situation in humans. Zinc poisoning is not caused by breathing zinc oxide fumes, but by absorbing or ingesting metallic zinc. The treatment for breathing zinc oxide is fresh air and rehydration.

This has been discussed many times before. Here is my text from a former thread that covers the commonly stated misinformation about Jim, "Paw-paw" Wilson's death.

We have this pop up about once a week - so I'll post my comments again:

Metal Fume Fever is the condition you get from breathing zinc oxide fumes by burning/welding on/heating galvanized metal. It is a flu like feeling. Red itchy eyes, nausea, runny nose, etc. It is not fatal. Drinking milk, and getting fresh air and a good nights sleep are the treatment.

Zinc Poisoning is an entirely different condition, and is of concern with animals ( especially birds) but rare in humans. It is caused by absorption of zinc through food and skin contact. In its most severe case, it causes liver and kidney failure.

Zinc Oxide is a stable compound of zinc, and is not absorbable through the skin......or all the life guards would be dead. Like any fine dust ( and smoke), breathing zinc oxide should be avoided.

Heavy Metals is a poorly and improperly used term ( and not actually a medical term), that refers to any metal that is....well...heavy. Problem is that all the "heavy Metals" are not heavy....and all are not toxic ( the medical term is Toxic Metals). Some heavy metals are required for health. Zinc is one of these, Iron is another. Others ,like lead, mercury, cadmium, and many of the radioactive metals, are toxic, and can lead to death. The ones that are of a worry are the ones stored in the blood and tissues that slowly disable the ability of your blood and nerves to work properly. Zinc is not one of these.

Jim "Paw Paw" Wilson died of severe pneumonia caused by working in a closed shop for hours with heavy smoke. The presence of the zinc fumes surely did him no good, but it is misleading/wrong to say he died of zinc poisoning. His death was sad, but it probably was avoidable. Great overexposure to smoke and particulate inhalation, probable COPD, and severe pneumonia is what killed him....not metal fume fever.


We all need to avoid exposure to dust and smoke, but working safely and intelligently is the best way to do that....not fear mongering.

Wear filtration - a good P100 cartridge filter mask or hood will avoid 99% of all metal/wood working problems.
Have good fresh air flow in and out of the shop.
Vent exhaust gasses. Even better run forges outside when possible.
Remove dust at the source -vacuum systems or other dust collection is almost a must for safe shop work. At the very least, vacuum up the work area after ( and during) dirty work.
If feeling woozy, take a break.
If feeling sick ,knock off for the night. Tell someone you don't feel well and were working in the shop.
If ill, see a doctor! Tell him what you do for a hobby, and what metals and woods you have been using. (BTW, doctor regularly confuse metal fume fever/heavy metal poisoning, too. They hear the same stories we do.)
When working with galvanized metal and welding or burning on it, keep upwind.
Stacy
 
So I heated the whole thing up in a big fire today. Like half of the wheel got to a dull cherry red, and all the paint came right off. The galvanized flange oxidized and turned yellow. (maybe yellow instead of white because of Cadmium impurities in the Zinc) I took it all apart after it cooled and used a wire brush to clean off the flange. Bolted back together, small hair-drier fan attached, almost ready to go. I made a grate out of some 1/4 inch mild steel wire that I pounded into a spiral.

I will set the whole thing in a box with sand, then find some clay to insulate the "bowl" of the forge inside the wheel. Then get charcoal.
When I'm finished I will take some pics and post them
 
There are several blacksmith/bladesmiths in and around Ithaca. A call to one will let you know where to get proper charcoal, or the right coal for forging. The coal you want is called Pocahontas #3.
 
I bought a 20 lb bag of hardwood lump charcoal for $17 at Agway to start. That's pretty expensive; I think I'll figure out to make it myself.
I'd rather avoid coal because of the environmental impact on the land and global warming and all, but I'll use it if I have to / if it works way better than charcoal. I'll give those 3 places a call about what they recommend using and where to get it locally.
 
Forging coal would provide no more damage to the planet than charcoal would.

You named yourself chemistguy...come on... use that to figure it out. Coal is carbon...charcoal is carbon. Forging coal is low sulfur, and has fairly low volatiles. It burns down to coke and the coke burns down to CO2 and ash. Charcoal is carbonized wood. The wood had the volatile gasses burned off ( into the atmosphere) and the resulting carboniferous mass is burned into CO2 and ash. The net result global warming effect of either fuel is about the same. Charcoal smells less when you burn it because the volatiles have been driven off at some factory somewhere in China. While charcoal is cleaner burning in the forge, and smells much less, at $17 a bag it will make forging a very expensive proposition. Coal will last much longer. There are also things you can do with coal that are harder to do with charcoal.

Your profile ( and lack of info - filling out your age is helpful) makes me feel you are a high school chemistry student or an early college student. Just for reference purposes, I used to be a research chemist for Virginia Chemicals. Keep at your studies and try to apply everything you learn to knifemaking as well as your career pursuit. It will amaze you how much physics, and chemistry are involved in many other fields.
 
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