Ganzo G704-G or Ganzo G716

@mcfuggle here it is plain and simple. By constantly stating that Ganzo is using the Axis lock on their knives, you are saying that they are in fact counterfeiting. As Craytab pointed out and you have thus far refused to acknowledge is that the Axis lock design patent is owned by Benchmade. Ganzo Never asked permission nor have they paid any royalties to Benchmade for the use of this technology and therefore they are stealing it. There is a reason that none of the reputable online dealers sell their product.

I'll simplify it even more by asking you to answer the following question honestly, yes, or no. Does Ganzo knives use an Axis lock?
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
@mcfuggle here it is plain and simple. By constantly stating that Ganzo is using the Axis lock on their knives, you are saying that they are in fact counterfeiting. As Craytab pointed out and you have thus far refused to acknowledge is that the Axis lock design patent is owned by Benchmade. Ganzo Never asked permission nor have they paid any royalties to Benchmade for the use of this technology and therefore they are stealing it. There is a reason that none of the reputable online dealers sell their product.

I'll simplify it even more by asking you to answer the following question honestly, yes, or no. Does Ganzo knives use an Axis lock?
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Holy crap! It is that simple! Thanks for putting it in different terms, which might possibly be more easily understood. Though I am not even sure mcwhatsle will be back, or much less care to understand the facts of the situation.
 
Yeah. He's probably selling them on the Bay right now, and was looking to up his sales by hijacking this thread. Ever see Clerks? "buy Chewlies gum you cancer merchant!"
 
OK, so here's how I see it. You have a company that patented the best lock in the world (imo) but we should all at least agree the axis lock is great. You can't really get any benchmade for too much under $100 now. A company rips them off, makes a cheap product that doesn't compare nor claim to. The point that they are not counterfeit, or claiming to be benchmades, does not negate that they stole their designs.

Now, again, benchmades are expensive. Too expensive IMO (and yet I still have and love a few, even for the price). As a young knife enthusiast, I couldn't believe the prices of such knives,. If I knew about a place that made bootleg knives with that lock I woulda been in!

Imagine you love knives and collect and admire different locks, designs etc. You truly believe A $200 knife is not ever going the be a luxury you can afford. Its pretty easy to rationalize the purchase. Its not like benchmade's offering a $50 version in 8cr...

Its still wrong though. Still supporting an immoral company. But its a lot easier to understand when you're on the side where you have that money to spend on the real thing. Not impossible to understand on the side without the means either though.

So anyways, title said ganzo. Should people who buy ganzo knives be allowed to discuss them without people freaking out about them being rip offs? Also, should people be allowed to discuss benchmades free of people saying you can get a much more affordable axis lock from ganzo?
 
^^^^ That is a thought process I have no problem with. What craytab & I are arguing was McWhatsisface trying to BS us into thinking that what Ganzo is doing was ethically fine, and not illegal.
 
Right, what north said.

I have been on both sides. I have purchased Ganzo knives. I still own the H&K knock off. I wouldn't if Benchmade would put out another run of it. I would pay 10x the cost of the ganzo for the real deal. If one comes up on the exchange and I am lucky enough to get it, guess what? The counterfeit goes by by. Like I said I have been on both sides. I got rid of the Ganzo Rift and the Ganzo Bedlam. I bought the real things. I saved up. That is the right thing to do.

To deny the companies in China that sell the axis lock aren't counterfeiting is ludicrous. They are illegally copying and marketing a patented design for profit. If they did it here they would be in real trouble.
 
Copies, clones, and rip-offs are much different from true fakes or counterfeits, imo.

Sure, both raise ethical questions and may be illegal, but are you saying you can't see a difference between Ganzo selling Ganzo branded knives vs. Ganzo or whoever selling fake Sebenzas, Hinderers, Striders, etc... as OEM? Where people are regularly duped into paying full prices for the fake?

So, yeah, shame on them for using the axis lock, but I think there's a a big difference between unauthorized use of a lock vs. a direct copy down to the model number and trademark made to deceive people, which I think is all mcfuggle was really trying to say.
 
There is no difference in selling a whole counterfeit knife from selling a counterfeit design such as the axis lock. Why do you think it is patented? Reproducing it without the okay from Benchmade is against the law in this country. It is a counterfeit axis lock. How is that hard to understand?
 
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While both Sanrenmu and Enlan have produced axis lock copies, it was only on a couple of their models and even then it appears that Sanrenmu has acknowledged the legal situation and have re-released their axis model, the 763 as a liner lock.

Ganzo's error is in releasing the majority of their knives, not only with a patented lock, but also by making what are clearly clones.
 
Ganzo is selling you a Ganzo knife with their version of the axis lock.

A counterfeiter is selling you their very best version of a real Benchmade and also telling you that it is a real benchmade (or whatever) and are also violating trademarks and copyrights.

Not even arguing that aren't both wrong, just that there is clearly a difference in what is being done. I'm not concerned with my own level of understanding here.

At any rate, Benchmade's rights to "McHenry and Williams patent #5737841" may be up in 2015, if what I've read in the past is accurate. Then I guess maybe it will become more "open" like the back lock, liner lock, frame lock, etc...
 
Apophis said:
Ganzo is selling you a Ganzo knife with their version of the axis lock.
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Which is a patented design and thus now counterfeit.

Apophis said:
A counterfeiter is selling you their very best version of a real Benchmade and also telling you that it is a real benchmade (or whatever) and are also violating trademarks and copyrights.
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You forgot to add in patents when you mention trademarks and copyrights. All these things amount to theft of a design as one's own. IE counterfeit. Again, in the US it is illegal.

Apophis said:
Not even arguing that aren't both wrong, just that there is clearly a difference in what is being done. I'm not concerned with my own level of understanding here.
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Well you should be. Patent infringement is illegal.

Apophis said:
At any rate, Benchmade's rights to "McHenry and Williams patent #5737841" may be up in 2015, if what I've read in the past is accurate. Then I guess maybe it will become more "open" like the back lock, liner lock, frame lock, etc...
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Right. Now you are getting it. Then, if the patent is no longer exclusive it will not be theft and illegal for others to produce counterfeit versions.

What is with all the counterfeit discussions around here lately? People seem to have very loose morals about understanding what is wrong, even if it is against the law...
 
You even quoted me multiple times and still ignored half of what I said...

One is patent infringment.

The other is patent, copyright, and trademark infringmement with intent to deceive the end user.

I am NOT saying the first is at all okay, just that CLEARY there is a difference of degree here. In my opinion the latter does far more harm and should be the much larger concern to the industry.

But I guess if you can't see it or don't think it matters or is worthy of discussion, that's fine.
 
Apophis said:
One is patent infringment.

The other is patent, copyright, and trademark infringmement with intent to deceive the end user.
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So when Ganzo says they're knives have the axis lock they are not trying to deceive the end user? Counterfeit is counterfeit whether you steal the whole design or part of it and represent it as something it is not. When you illegally incorporate a patented design and represent it as the original design, even using the patented name, how is that not making a counterfeit of that patented design?

I understand you are looking at the whole knife but it is that narrow minded thinking that is dangerous. Weak minded people, unlike yourself, may use that thought process to legitimize purchasing the knock off, patent infringed axis lock.

I think in a sense we agree but are coming at it from different angles.
 
Hidratado said:
Ok, I was wrong about the 150-200 thing, but for its price, it performs very well from what ive seen. Ill hear you guys and buy an well-branded knife. Thanks :D
And please, close this thread, because idk how...
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You need to contact a moderator (their names will be in red) if you can't figure out how to close this thread. As usual, these threads always devolve into petty bickering that is far, far away from the original question.

Although... it did make it to a handful of posts this time before it was hijacked. This is a horse that no matter how dead it is, always deserves another public beating.

Robert
 
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