Gaps in between tang and scales. What are my options?

JG Custom Metal Works

JG Custom Metal Works

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Nov 27, 2013
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I've read that it's not good to clamp the hell out of scales because it will push the epoxy out. I don't have a surface grinder so I think the problem might be that the surfaces of the scales and tang aren't matching up perfectly. What I'm wondering is if there is a liner I could use that would have some flex in them and eliminate a gap from even forming(since it would squeeze into it when clamped)?

I just spoke with a friend who mentioned using black g10 liners in conjunction with black epoxy dye and the epoxy will fill in the gap. Do you guys have any advice about how I can prevent gaps? I'd really appreciate the help.
 
Buy a can of 3M spray adhesive and some full sheets of sandpaper, spray the adhesive on the flattest surface you have, Stick the sandpaper down and with a circular motion and even pressure sand the back side of your scales, that should get them flat in no time, that will also work for the tang
 
With some patience you can true your scales and tang on a granite surface plate pre-HT and touch them back up post-HT.
 
A piece of glass will work as a flat surface, You really want to leave the flat scales and tang no finer than 120 grit so the epoxy has some surface area to hang on to.
The black epoxy will help to some extent but you really want to get your surfaces as flat as possible.

G-10 is nasty stuff, if you use it wear a respirator and have a vac suck up the dust.
 
There is a method of seating any shaped object to another that gives a perfect edge. It works really well on scales.

Make the center of the scales and the tang slightly hollowed. Use any grinding method you wish, as it does not need to be neat or pretty. Actually, rough is better. Leave a border of at least 1/8" around the perimeter for a smooth joint. Once the centers have been hollow, it is easy to true the rims. just place a piece of 120 grit paaper on a flat surface ( granite surface plate is best) and rub in a figure eight pattern. FIGURE EIGHT...not back and forth. Do this to both sides and test the fit. It only takes a few seconds of sanding to take the scales to a perfect fit. The tang may take a minute to get it perfect. Blackening the edges with a magic marker or dy-chem makes finding the high spots a snap, BTW.
Once the scales and tang are hollowed and sanded flat, glue up is really easy. Apply glue to both sides and clamp with medium pressure. Since there is a nice reservoir of epoxy in the middle, there is no chance of a gluer starved joint.


The same basic procedure makes seating a hidden tang handle to the guard easy. Shape the end of the handle in a chamfer outward from the tang hole. This makes only the outer edge seat against the guard. A few visual checks and some filing/sanding on the high spot of the handle makes a perfect fit.
 
bladsmth said:
There is a method of seating any shaped object to another that gives a perfect edge. It works really well on scales.

Make the center of the scales and the tang slightly hollowed. Use any grinding method you wish, as it does not need to be neat or pretty. Actually, rough is better. Leave a border of at least 1/8" around the perimeter for a smooth joint. Once the centers have been hollow, it is easy to true the rims. just place a piece of 120 grit paaper on a flat surface ( granite surface plate is best) and rub in a figure eight pattern. FIGURE EIGHT...not back and forth. Do this to both sides and test the fit. It only takes a few seconds of sanding to take the scales to a perfect fit. The tang may take a minute to get it perfect. Blackening the edges with a magic marker or dy-chem makes finding the high spots a snap, BTW.
Once the scales and tang are hollowed and sanded flat, glue up is really easy. Apply glue to both sides and clamp with medium pressure. Since there is a nice reservoir of epoxy in the middle, there is no chance of a gluer starved joint.


The same basic procedure makes seating a hidden tang handle to the guard easy. Shape the end of the handle in a chamfer outward from the tang hole. This makes only the outer edge seat against the guard. A few visual checks and some filing/sanding on the high spot of the handle makes a perfect fit.
Click to expand...

Yes! What a great trick of the trade. Sounds like a dremel with a round burr (might be incorrect on the terminology) might be a good choice to do some of the hollowing.
 
You guys are awesome, I really appreciate the help. I'm gonna use that method Stacey. Thanks again everyone,. I'm off to buy a slab of granite.
 
I often use a flex shaft with a 1/4" carbide ball burr to relieve the scales. On the tang I use a 1" small wheel in a small wheel fork, or just use the 2" wheel on the bottom of the flat platen.
 
I once rehandled a large blade with a tapered tang from a very famous overseas firm for a client.

The tang was so crooked, poorly forged and full of dings and hammermarks and general foul-ups that if I had ground it flat on both sides to fit the new scales properly, I would have shortened the tang by at least an inch. I "solved" the problem by using neoprene liners... basically as a gasket.

Of course, the proper way is to get everything right to begin with, flat with a bit of relief as the other fellows explained. :)
 
James, You reminded me of a though I had in another discussion.

I had considered using 3/32" neoprene gasket material as a spacer/liner on knives with a Corby bolt handle. The liner and scales could be glued up with a good material like G-flex or one of the black rubber epoxies/glues, and the bolts tightened to get a firm seat. It seemed that this would provide a perfect seal as well as some shock absorption in the handle on a big chopper or a heavy cleaver. Never got around to trying it, but maybe I will do it on a big brush cutter I have on the bench.
 
bladsmth said:
James, You reminded me of a though I had in another discussion.

I had considered using 3/32" neoprene gasket material as a spacer/liner on knives with a Corby bolt handle. The liner and scales could be glued up with a good material like G-flex or one of the black rubber epoxies/glues, and the bolts tightened to get a firm seat. It seemed that this would provide a perfect seal as well as some shock absorption in the handle on a big chopper or a heavy cleaver. Never got around to trying it, but maybe I will do it on a big brush cutter I have on the bench.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was trying to do. I wonder if it would be possible to heat up some G10 liners and make it pliable? That would enable it to take the shape it needed to to get a good seal.

Maybe the neoprene would be a better option.
 
bladsmth said:
It seemed that this would provide a perfect seal as well as some shock absorption in the handle on a big chopper or a heavy cleaver.
Click to expand...

I doubt very much that 1/16" or 3/32" of neoprene will provide any noticeable shock absorption... the whole thing has to be squeezed together pretty snugly. But it will definitely make an excellent seal. (as you know, that's exactly what the neoprene is made/sold for - gaskets.)

Of course if shock absorption is a concern, one can always just use solid horse-stall mat or thicker neoprene like our friends in the competition cutting sports so often do. Such handles are butt-ugly, but they're super comfortable and grippy.

creature7 said:
I wonder if it would be possible to heat up some G10 liners and make it pliable?
Click to expand...
The short answer is "no".

creature7 said:
Maybe the neoprene would be a better option.
Click to expand...

Yes :) Simply glue the neoprene to your scale material and build them as usual. Once sandwiched between the tang and the scale with some pressure, the neoprene may squeeze out a bit, but it will sand down flush with the normal procedures. When it's done it just looks like normal flat black liners.
 
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Stacy, thanks for the tip! I'd heard of doing that for guard to handle fitting but not for handles. That's a great tip!
That's what I live about this forum! SO much info! It's actually kinda hard to process it all! Lol!
 
creature7 said:
This is exactly what I was trying to do. I wonder if it would be possible to heat up some G10 liners and make it pliable? That would enable it to take the shape it needed to to get a good seal.

Maybe the neoprene would be a better option.
Click to expand...

I would be very careful and read up on heating G-10. Very nasty, carcinogenic stuff.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
I would be very careful and read up on heating G-10. Very nasty, carcinogenic stuff.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'll probably just go for the neoprene if I want a more cushiony liner. I'm real good about wearing my respirator when working on hazardous shit though. I've been casting lead bullets for years and it's just something you have to do.
 
Okay, so I have a square foot of marble and I have the inside of the tang(about .200 around the edge unground) ground. I didn't grind a ton but it should provide a nice relieved area for the epoxy to go.

Now, as far as sanding with the marble. Would it be possible to cut out a piece from the square foot and wrap it with sand paper or should I leave it as is? I'm just trying to figure out how I will be able to keep the knife flat against it and still do the figure eight motion. I have the blade wrapped at the moment so if I was to lay the entire blade(large chopper) down it wouldn't lay flat. I could just lay the tang on the sandpaper/marble, with the blade off, but i might have a hard time doing the figure eight motion.

Any ideas? I can try and take pics if what I'm describing isn't making sense.
 
Spray a 3m adhesive or other on the marble. Tack the sand paper, No finer than 120 grit on the marble.
Then do your figure eight with the scales before you epoxy the scales & liners to the tang of the knife..

The tang should be trued up on your grinder platen.
 
What in the world is that metal cutaway thing? Doesn't sound right....what is it really doing?
Cool though
 
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