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Gas Outages
- Thread starter Mark Williams
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Kim Breed said:Trade knives for more guns and ammo. More drive off are occuring and Im waiting for the old syphen hose to come out. going to have to booby trap the gas lids. Utter caos. I love it, flash backs to overseas.
I started already, Traded one knife for an in line TC black powder rifle and another for a CZ pistol last spring.
I like barter.
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Brian, the hollow thump of 2 shells dropping into a double barrel 12ga. and then that sound of the barrels snapping shut will deter a looter, but if that doesn't do it, a high pitched scream and the sight of a spiked tomahawk heading his way will. 
Bill
Bill
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hybrid cars I hate to say is a joke..
look at the prices you have to pay for them and it don't matter,, the fuel
be it from gas or ele, it still is from hydro carbons in one form or the other.
look who runs the country and your looking at the problems.. you don't see them cutting back on their fuel ..and it won't happen, the rich will buy the fuel and not bat an eye about it..
the truckers need the money
they won't stop rolling, the buses use more fuel, we cut and it leaves more from them to use ( profit driven)..we're doing just exactly what they want us to do..
the price goes up and their stock goes up,, why would they ever want the
prices to go down?
a station about a week ago was under selling all the others around
and the police shut them down..they said it was causing traffic problems.. :grumpy: is it not what they are for? directing traffic?
we caused our problem at the Government level and that's where we need to fix it..
we need farmers for office I think..
ride a cow, drink more milk..save the Methane gas coming out the other end for the Sunday drives,
I'll bet you all think that's funny...yeah me too, it's to late for that..or is it?
Nominate and Vote..
look at the prices you have to pay for them and it don't matter,, the fuel
be it from gas or ele, it still is from hydro carbons in one form or the other.
look who runs the country and your looking at the problems.. you don't see them cutting back on their fuel ..and it won't happen, the rich will buy the fuel and not bat an eye about it..
the truckers need the money they won't stop rolling, the buses use more fuel, we cut and it leaves more from them to use ( profit driven)..we're doing just exactly what they want us to do..
the price goes up and their stock goes up,, why would they ever want the
prices to go down?
a station about a week ago was under selling all the others around
and the police shut them down..they said it was causing traffic problems.. :grumpy: is it not what they are for? directing traffic?
we caused our problem at the Government level and that's where we need to fix it..
we need farmers for office I think..
ride a cow, drink more milk..save the Methane gas coming out the other end for the Sunday drives,
I'll bet you all think that's funny...yeah me too, it's to late for that..or is it?
Nominate and Vote..
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Sounds like you just want to pass the problem on to someone else Dan. Sure it doesn't affect people with money as much as those with less and sure the truckers will keep on rolling, you better hope they do anyway, or not only will the prices of everything else skyrocket, they'll be great shortages in the bread lines too. As for the buses using more fuel, if you take 50 cars and put 1 person in them everyday and drive 50 miles or take 1 bus and put 50 people in it and drive 50 miles whats going to use the less fuel. The petroleum companies have us by the short hairs, but its because we let them grab us there. If the great majority of the public would stay home on weekends and cause less gas consumption to a substantual amount the petro companies will start losing money from lack of sales, lack of sales means less production needed, means less help needed, means less money spent, means less money made, means less stocks sold, means less company profits, means lower prices to boost more demand, means more profits again. You see there's always going to be people that abuse and over use from greed, but why should you let those people run your life, don't support the rich folks that could care less about you, and buy products from the folks that help.
Sure we all might have to call grandma & grandpa for a month or 2 instead of driving a couple hundred miles to vite and we might have to stay home and actually get to know our families on weekends, but you have to give up something to get something and you never know, maybe the families spending more time together might actually help the parents and the kids learn more respect for one another..
Bill
Sure we all might have to call grandma & grandpa for a month or 2 instead of driving a couple hundred miles to vite and we might have to stay home and actually get to know our families on weekends, but you have to give up something to get something and you never know, maybe the families spending more time together might actually help the parents and the kids learn more respect for one another..
Bill
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Bill I don't pass anything on to anyone that is not deserving of it.
I vote..so I have a say in it.. and please don't think for a min I'm coming down on you for your thoughts here..
to cut down on a few pleasure trip just won't do it. we've created a fuel consuming monster,, all of us did it.
just stop and think for a min..
if you look at industry and all the products that come from oil as a whole you'd soon realize (Our) cars are but a small part of the problem, check out china's consumption for another..are we going to change their way?
did you know to move one ocean liner one FOOT it takes ~ 1 gal of JP5 fuel.
what is a round trip worth of 2000 miles? and how many of them run, and who gets on them, I can't afford it..
what about the army , navy, Air force, Marine's, Nasa,
can we tell them to cut down a few trips over sea's or our space jaunts? who has that say? the gov rrr yes but it's us at the booths but we are the sheep..how can we now...we've created our masters..government gives themselves razes now we let it happen..
all of our plastic comes from oil and a vast amount of other stuff that I'm not going to take the time to write. we have oil men running the country..and most of us can't even come close to seeing the big picture..
and if we could cut it down to make a difference it just prolongs the inevitable
it's running out and getting harder to get..it's just a fact of life. it will run out or get too expensive to use.
and they just don't know for sure how much we have left, if they did
they wouldn't be searching for more.. we do know it's getting harder to find
and that alone causes more price increase. but this gouging is something else..
you'll find if we could use less and should it happen to make a difference a big part of the private sector that has to buy and run businesses will just jack prices up to compensate for the lost, the mom and pop stations are at the oil company's mercy too.
so if you stop buying from them we cut our own throats.. the oil men run us and we helped..by creating the demand..
I need to stop or I'm going to blow a gasket..
I vote..so I have a say in it.. and please don't think for a min I'm coming down on you for your thoughts here..
to cut down on a few pleasure trip just won't do it. we've created a fuel consuming monster,, all of us did it.
just stop and think for a min..
if you look at industry and all the products that come from oil as a whole you'd soon realize (Our) cars are but a small part of the problem, check out china's consumption for another..are we going to change their way?
did you know to move one ocean liner one FOOT it takes ~ 1 gal of JP5 fuel.
what is a round trip worth of 2000 miles? and how many of them run, and who gets on them, I can't afford it..
what about the army , navy, Air force, Marine's, Nasa,
can we tell them to cut down a few trips over sea's or our space jaunts? who has that say? the gov rrr yes but it's us at the booths but we are the sheep..how can we now...we've created our masters..government gives themselves razes now we let it happen..
all of our plastic comes from oil and a vast amount of other stuff that I'm not going to take the time to write. we have oil men running the country..and most of us can't even come close to seeing the big picture..
and if we could cut it down to make a difference it just prolongs the inevitable
it's running out and getting harder to get..it's just a fact of life. it will run out or get too expensive to use.
and they just don't know for sure how much we have left, if they did
they wouldn't be searching for more.. we do know it's getting harder to find
and that alone causes more price increase. but this gouging is something else..
you'll find if we could use less and should it happen to make a difference a big part of the private sector that has to buy and run businesses will just jack prices up to compensate for the lost, the mom and pop stations are at the oil company's mercy too.
so if you stop buying from them we cut our own throats.. the oil men run us and we helped..by creating the demand..
I need to stop or I'm going to blow a gasket..
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I will have to agree with both of you, Bill and Dan.
BUT - If I stay home more instead of driving all over the place, I don't spend much if any of MY money. I think it comes down to an individual choice, do I drive around and spend lots of money or do I stay home and save MY money. Knife shows and hammerins excluded
I don't think any of us can fix this but most of us can chose how much we consume. If I had to drive to work every day, I would be looking for a cheaper way to do it for sure, although I probably wouldn't go out and buy a $30,000 hybrid but maybe an old $1500 VW or something that got 30+ MPG. Just my .02.
Don Hanson
BUT - If I stay home more instead of driving all over the place, I don't spend much if any of MY money. I think it comes down to an individual choice, do I drive around and spend lots of money or do I stay home and save MY money. Knife shows and hammerins excluded
I don't think any of us can fix this but most of us can chose how much we consume. If I had to drive to work every day, I would be looking for a cheaper way to do it for sure, although I probably wouldn't go out and buy a $30,000 hybrid but maybe an old $1500 VW or something that got 30+ MPG. Just my .02.Don Hanson
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I agree there is a great problem, but its more with the petro companies control then the reserves. As I stated in an earlier post, a feller told me that knows a great deal more about whats available then I do. The US oil reserves at this time will easily supply us for at least the next 3 generatons. He's worked for this petro company for over 15 years and he had no reason to make it up, he works and deals with all aspects of the oil company every day.
To say that it doesn't matter how much we drive doesn't have an effect on the gasoline prices is totally wrong. Why do you think gas prices go up on the holidays and then back off after. Because the petro companies know that the American people are going to go on vacation and visiting, no matter what the price. We're like a bunch of piano playing chickens, quit letting them control the prices and start conserving. The only way they will ever feel the sting is in the pocket book, but with the mentallity that it doesn't matter how much I burn it won't matter is exactly what they're banking on.
As for the hurricane causing prices to increase, our gas prices were climbing long before any Katina came to shore, matter of fact I was told 2 weeks ago by a local station, that I had better fill up because gas was going to $3 before Labor Day weekend and this was a week before any Hurricane.
I live in a tourist area, I know what people will do and so does the petro companies. So until the people take this serious and quit thinking there's nothing they do that will matter it will keep getting worse.
You can also veto in whom ever you want, but it won't have any barring on the petro companies or the medical industry. Its up to the American people to show them enough is enough, but until their willing to do without, it will never happen. So, you just go on and drive all you want, but don't bit** when the gas prices hit $5, after all you drove the prices up by going going going.
Here's one for you to think about Dan, look at the new car prices, why are they so high compared to say 20 years ago? answer, Because people keep buying them, if the American people would leave the new high priced cars on the lots, the prices would soon come down, or the car companies would soon go broke. Same with the petro companies. We have more control over what happens then you think, but it all has to start with each and everyone of us.
Bill
To say that it doesn't matter how much we drive doesn't have an effect on the gasoline prices is totally wrong. Why do you think gas prices go up on the holidays and then back off after. Because the petro companies know that the American people are going to go on vacation and visiting, no matter what the price. We're like a bunch of piano playing chickens, quit letting them control the prices and start conserving. The only way they will ever feel the sting is in the pocket book, but with the mentallity that it doesn't matter how much I burn it won't matter is exactly what they're banking on.
As for the hurricane causing prices to increase, our gas prices were climbing long before any Katina came to shore, matter of fact I was told 2 weeks ago by a local station, that I had better fill up because gas was going to $3 before Labor Day weekend and this was a week before any Hurricane.
I live in a tourist area, I know what people will do and so does the petro companies. So until the people take this serious and quit thinking there's nothing they do that will matter it will keep getting worse.
You can also veto in whom ever you want, but it won't have any barring on the petro companies or the medical industry. Its up to the American people to show them enough is enough, but until their willing to do without, it will never happen. So, you just go on and drive all you want, but don't bit** when the gas prices hit $5, after all you drove the prices up by going going going.
Here's one for you to think about Dan, look at the new car prices, why are they so high compared to say 20 years ago? answer, Because people keep buying them, if the American people would leave the new high priced cars on the lots, the prices would soon come down, or the car companies would soon go broke. Same with the petro companies. We have more control over what happens then you think, but it all has to start with each and everyone of us.
Bill
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well Bill you have your opinion that's for sure as well as I have mine...
what's 30 years out of just our 200 it's not just the question of price..
I've seen the price from less than .29 PG to what we have now in just 40 years out of my 50 and the most of it in the last 15 with the progression forecasted
I can just about imagine what the next 30 will do for us.
once we get into the us reserve we'll see what happens..the money mongers will get their money you can bet your next pair of shoes on it...they are driving their own prices up but they have the money to survive it.
your analogize of
car prices can be agued with,car dealer greed, epa requirements to make mandatory testing, mandatory safety implements testing, and unions,
and look who's buying the new cars it's the ones with the money..
Bill, those are the ones that don't care,, I'm talking the majority,
they are buying the cars knowing the fuel prices right now today...yes if they would stop buying maybe but it's not going to happen.
OK say that it would happen..
if we stopped buying new then the price of used cars would just go up more, we'd have a supply issue then even higher prices they are not being made any longer , there you go, same problem but worse..with higher unemployment
and many of the older cars use more fuel if you want to argue cutting back
the ones with money will not cut back $10.00 a gal won't phase them I don't think $15.00 PG would jar them..
the gas company's (refineries) will just up the prices and the ones that can afford it will keep them going,,
who caps the high prices.. ??
they would just demand more pay and income and it's the little guy that will pay for it,, like I said it's the big picture that no one sees .
some states have a gas cap, (a low limit),,the word I was looking for before is called selling at a lost leader they can not sell lower than the set low limit,, they can not sell at a lost leader (less then they bought it for , why? this is America Right..
who set that and why? income protection?? maybe...part of the bigger picture..
laws can be made and they can be taken out, but not if the voter sits on his ass. it's getting bigger then we are..
and the gov will be self run before we know it..big Brother is watching us..
it boils down to the fuel will be bought until there is no more, sad to say though it's not going to be you or I buying it..
"To say that it doesn't matter how much we drive doesn't have an effect on the gasoline prices is totally wrong."
who said that Bill?
I've had my say, now I'll leave it alone.. I could have made a knife in the time it takes me type this crap..
what's 30 years out of just our 200 it's not just the question of price..
I've seen the price from less than .29 PG to what we have now in just 40 years out of my 50 and the most of it in the last 15 with the progression forecasted
I can just about imagine what the next 30 will do for us.
once we get into the us reserve we'll see what happens..the money mongers will get their money you can bet your next pair of shoes on it...they are driving their own prices up but they have the money to survive it.
your analogize of
car prices can be agued with,car dealer greed, epa requirements to make mandatory testing, mandatory safety implements testing, and unions,
and look who's buying the new cars it's the ones with the money..
Bill, those are the ones that don't care,, I'm talking the majority,
they are buying the cars knowing the fuel prices right now today...yes if they would stop buying maybe but it's not going to happen.
OK say that it would happen..
if we stopped buying new then the price of used cars would just go up more, we'd have a supply issue then even higher prices they are not being made any longer , there you go, same problem but worse..with higher unemployment
and many of the older cars use more fuel if you want to argue cutting back
the ones with money will not cut back $10.00 a gal won't phase them I don't think $15.00 PG would jar them..
the gas company's (refineries) will just up the prices and the ones that can afford it will keep them going,,
who caps the high prices.. ??
they would just demand more pay and income and it's the little guy that will pay for it,, like I said it's the big picture that no one sees .
some states have a gas cap, (a low limit),,the word I was looking for before is called selling at a lost leader they can not sell lower than the set low limit,, they can not sell at a lost leader (less then they bought it for , why? this is America Right..
who set that and why? income protection?? maybe...part of the bigger picture..
laws can be made and they can be taken out, but not if the voter sits on his ass. it's getting bigger then we are..
and the gov will be self run before we know it..big Brother is watching us..
it boils down to the fuel will be bought until there is no more, sad to say though it's not going to be you or I buying it..
"To say that it doesn't matter how much we drive doesn't have an effect on the gasoline prices is totally wrong."
who said that Bill?
I've had my say, now I'll leave it alone.. I could have made a knife in the time it takes me type this crap..
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I have to say something here about oil/gas supplies. Bill your friend needs to look to published sources for information on oil reserves.
I am a professional petroleum geologist and I work for a state regulatory agency. Part of my job duties is to keep track of trends in the industry. The crude oil production from continental North America peaked in the early 1970s and the Gulf of Mexico has peaked in the last few years. There is no way that the US can run on domestic oil production (including Canada's contribution). There are a couple of areas where developing technologies may allow an increase: oil shale in the Colorado Plateau and tar sands in Canada both show some promise, but have both severe technological and environmental problems to solve before coming online. The ANWAR oil, if it is there in as great an amount as has been speculated based on early exploration work that hasn't been proven yet, will contribute about 10 billion bbls. That is equal to less than six months supply for the world or 400 days for the US at 2002 consumption rates (for the US, 26 million bbls/day). The really giant fields in the persian gulf and Caspian Sea area may contribute up to a trillion bbls (1000 billion) giving us a maximum known world reserve of about 1350 billion bbls. At 2002 rates (78 million bbls/day), we would have about 40-45 years left. Estimates of consumption by 2020 are that world demand will be 120 million bbls/day by that time as Asia industrializes.
The US is responsible for about 1/3 of the daily oil demand. As long as this continues, we will be reaping the sorrow we sew. Get used to high gas prices. They may fluctuate, but we will never see $1.00 gas again, much less the 0.19/gallon I was buying it for in Colorado after I got out of the Army in 1968.
I am a professional petroleum geologist and I work for a state regulatory agency. Part of my job duties is to keep track of trends in the industry. The crude oil production from continental North America peaked in the early 1970s and the Gulf of Mexico has peaked in the last few years. There is no way that the US can run on domestic oil production (including Canada's contribution). There are a couple of areas where developing technologies may allow an increase: oil shale in the Colorado Plateau and tar sands in Canada both show some promise, but have both severe technological and environmental problems to solve before coming online. The ANWAR oil, if it is there in as great an amount as has been speculated based on early exploration work that hasn't been proven yet, will contribute about 10 billion bbls. That is equal to less than six months supply for the world or 400 days for the US at 2002 consumption rates (for the US, 26 million bbls/day). The really giant fields in the persian gulf and Caspian Sea area may contribute up to a trillion bbls (1000 billion) giving us a maximum known world reserve of about 1350 billion bbls. At 2002 rates (78 million bbls/day), we would have about 40-45 years left. Estimates of consumption by 2020 are that world demand will be 120 million bbls/day by that time as Asia industrializes.
The US is responsible for about 1/3 of the daily oil demand. As long as this continues, we will be reaping the sorrow we sew. Get used to high gas prices. They may fluctuate, but we will never see $1.00 gas again, much less the 0.19/gallon I was buying it for in Colorado after I got out of the Army in 1968.
Mark Williams
Moderator
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There's plenty of oil left....We just need to drill sideways from international waters
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jhiggins said:So if a $30,000 hybrid car gets say, 50mpg, and a $1500 vw gets 30mpg, at $3.50 a gallon, how long would you have to own and drive the hybrid to make up for the extra $28,500?
not sure until you figure in the replacement batteries and the repairs
that go with a vehicle that not every back yard grease monkey can work on.
those will be dealer items only for some time to come ..$$$
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hey guys I'm not tring to start an argument here or talk as an authority on whats best, but I have seen the petro companies flucuate the gas prices at will and thats because the people allow it to happen.
Dan when you said:
to cut down on a few pleasure trip just won't do it. we've created a fuel consuming monster,, all of us did it.
Thats where I get from you that it doesn't matter how much we use. they're going to do what they want. thats why I said.
To say that it doesn't matter how much we drive doesn't have an effect on the gasoline prices is totally wrong."
It has to start somewhere, but until people are willing to give up those pleasure trips it will never get better. Sure it doesn't help much if just you and I stay home but if a couple million would, you've saved a bunch of fuel, and got into the petro companies pockets.
As for buying new cars, its not only the rich buying, its the every day middle class, thats doing the most buying. You drop the price of new cars and the price of used cars will drop also, why buy a used car when you can buy a new one for just a thousand or so more. Think about it.
shgeo, I've seen gas at 9 and 10 cents a gallon, but I doubt I'll ever see it at less then $2.90 again. What I don't understand is if you say there's only so much then why isn't the price already high enough to deter people from driving those unnecessary miles. What you say is a good place to start as far as information on oil reserves. But there is a great deal of info never published or made available by big business or the Government, so I wouldn't judge all I know by whats available to me publicly. This gentleman is in a position to where he is very knowledgeable about what is available to the petro company he works for, so I wouldn't rule out anything he says just because you can't find it written somewhere. Again I'm just stateing what he's stated to me, but I can see no reason for him to fabricate anything, after all we were just having a friendly conversation when this all came up.
Happy driving,
Bill
Dan when you said:
to cut down on a few pleasure trip just won't do it. we've created a fuel consuming monster,, all of us did it.
Thats where I get from you that it doesn't matter how much we use. they're going to do what they want. thats why I said.
To say that it doesn't matter how much we drive doesn't have an effect on the gasoline prices is totally wrong."
It has to start somewhere, but until people are willing to give up those pleasure trips it will never get better. Sure it doesn't help much if just you and I stay home but if a couple million would, you've saved a bunch of fuel, and got into the petro companies pockets.
As for buying new cars, its not only the rich buying, its the every day middle class, thats doing the most buying. You drop the price of new cars and the price of used cars will drop also, why buy a used car when you can buy a new one for just a thousand or so more. Think about it.
shgeo, I've seen gas at 9 and 10 cents a gallon, but I doubt I'll ever see it at less then $2.90 again. What I don't understand is if you say there's only so much then why isn't the price already high enough to deter people from driving those unnecessary miles. What you say is a good place to start as far as information on oil reserves. But there is a great deal of info never published or made available by big business or the Government, so I wouldn't judge all I know by whats available to me publicly. This gentleman is in a position to where he is very knowledgeable about what is available to the petro company he works for, so I wouldn't rule out anything he says just because you can't find it written somewhere. Again I'm just stateing what he's stated to me, but I can see no reason for him to fabricate anything, after all we were just having a friendly conversation when this all came up.
Happy driving,
Bill
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Bill no arguments here, we are all just in a complicated mess that there is no easy way out of..
did you know some believe we never stepped foot on the Moon...
we know what we are told.. the military has proven that to us many a time.
I wasn't there so I don't really know for sure I just watched the tube
like most eveyone else did.
did you know some believe we never stepped foot on the Moon...
we know what we are told.. the military has proven that to us many a time.
I wasn't there so I don't really know for sure
I just watched the tube like most eveyone else did.
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- 12,297
A long, long time Higgyjhiggins said:So if a $30,000 hybrid car gets say, 50mpg, and a $1500 vw gets 30mpg, at $3.50 a gallon, how long would you have to own and drive the hybrid to make up for the extra $28,500?
The hybrid would be worn out before you saved any money. Oh, BTW, I heat my home and shop with wood that I cut myself. The oil companies can kiss my a$$
Don Hanson
I am an electrical contractor in southwest kansas. I do alot of work on the electirc pumping units out here and oklahoma, texas panhandles. There really isn't much of an oil shortage in the fields out here. With new technology and science they are finding that areas they thought were pumped out or not oil bearing were full of oil and gas! It is hard for me to imagine that other areas are not the same as here. B. Buxton hit the nail on the head it is as simple as the oil companys regulating thier own prices and the government allows them to do it. Average output for most of the wells i work on is a minimum 90-110 barrels of oil a month and they are constantly drilling new wells and reopening old ones litteraly every day! Many of the companies in oklahoma and texas now are just drilling and gas wells and not oil because by regulation they can put more gas wells to a section of land then oil wells and therefore make more profit. I also know several land owners in kansas and the oklahoma panhandle and the amount of money they are recieving from royaltys and being paid just for the oil companies to drive/drill on thier land is just outrageous. When you work with and around the oil companies on a regular basis and come to understand how much oil/gas there really is and what a load of BS the "shortage" is it's infuriating. The entire oil industry in the U.S. is set up not for efficiency but for maximum profit. Every bit of the oil that comes out of the ground out here is shipped to refineries in other states then our fuel that is shipped in to our gas stations is from refined oil from other states or over seas. Well its late im done ranting for now.