Gas Solenoids ?

Phil Dwyer

Phil Dwyer

Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
3,494
Hi Guys,

I'm trying to round up a couple of gas solenoids. Where do you all get them for a reasonable price. Would this one on ebay work, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=7620052794? Here's the merchant's description: "Valve Gas Pilot Solenoid 3/8" 15# 120V Asco. Part No. 238110030501/330026."

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Thanks, Phil
 

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The first one is the right valve. You just aren't going to use the pilot port.

I looked up the second number and it is a general purpose air/fuel oil valve by the spec sheet. It would work, but is not rated for fuel gas.
The valves that are made for gas lines say something like - ... 5-30PSI fuel gas..., or have the words-... gas/air/water/oil.... or just 5-15PSI gas....

The ones that are rated for air/oil are used all the time, but they are not the right valve. If it doesn't specifically say "gas" then it is not the correct valve. Will it ever matter??? I don't know. But I would use the first one, which is the valve used to run a water heater or similar gas device.

Stacy
 
The one I use on my controller was from McMaster-Carr. It was around $30, but that was 10 years ago.:D
 
The ASCO Redhat are good valves, I have used them for years on my salt bath rigs, but Stacy is correct that you need to find the Redhat "burner' valves made for gas application. I may be in the same istuation of looking soon since I am working on a new system that will require more PSI than my current valves handle.
 
I believe this is the one I have.
Brass Gas-Shut-Off Solenoid Valves


Safely shut off gas pipelines. Use with air, inert gases, and natural and LP gases. Temperature range is 14° to 176° F. Coil is Class H in a NEMA 2 enclosure (indoor use only) with a 1/2" conduit electrical connection. Coil operates on 120 VAC, 60 Hz. They remain closed until electrically energized (normally closed). Mount in horizontal pipe with coil on top. UL listed.
Pipe Connections: NPT female.
Pipe Max. Cv Amps @
Size psi Factor Lg. Ht. 120 VAC Each

With Buna-N Seals
1/4" 10 0.53 3" 3 1/8" 0.36 47545K33 $69.42


http://www.mcmaster.com/#47545k33/=1xexyr
They have this one too.

1/4" 2.0 126 2 1/4" 3" 0.15 0.8 4689K62 $73.24
 
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Thanks guys!

I wasn't expecting these puppies to be quite so expensive (approximately $75 ea). Seems like every time I turn around I'm dropping another hundred or two! That's why I'm starting to look now, even though I probably won't get to the project until later in the summer. This way I can bide my time until a good price comes up.

One more question re diameter. I've been looking at the 1/4", 3/8" & 1/2" diameter valves, but wonder if 1/8" would work alright? There seems to be several of them available. Correspondingly, can the diameter get too wide? What is a good range to stay within

Thanks, Phil
 
Hello Phil,

Your top post is exactly what I am using on my forge that you used during your visit to my shop. Here's a pic of the solenoids -->

ForgeGasControl003.jpg



I paid $35 for two of them. Currently in West Plains, MO. on business travel but will get you info regarding where I purchased them from when back at home this weekend.

Eric
 
Phil,
As a teacher, you have to read all the words. The valve says AIR- INERT GAS. That does not include fuel gas.The key word is INERT. ( write that on the chalkboard 100 times :D).
A three way valve can be used by plugging the exhaust port, if the valve is rated for fuel gas.

Any valve that says PILOT, will work. Just plug the pilot port ( or add a pilot light to the forge). That is exactly what I used and did before I came up with the two-stage controller.

Eric,
I like the primary line solenoid in your setup.:thumbup: It allows the gas supply to be turned on and off with a switch instead of a manual valve. Also, you have a very clean and neat setup for the by-pass line. The only thing I would suggest is replacing the ball valves with needle valves, since they will make adjusting the burner a little easier.

Stacy
 
Hello Phil,

The place I purchased my solenoids from is called Epartswholesale Inc. (800)338-0236. Could not find a web site. They are located in Upper Darby, PA.
Here is a description off the invoice:

(2) 3/8" solenoid gas valves, N/C, 120VAC, 60HZ coil, 15PSI - total cost was $36.25 for the two.

This was from about 1 year ago.

As Stacy said, be sure whatever you buy is rated for GAS. Many gas solenoids out there are only rated for 1/2 PSI (residental natural gas pressure). If you are going to be running propane, be sure you get one that can support at least 15 PSI.

bladsmth said:
Phil,
Eric,
I like the primary line solenoid in your setup.:thumbup: It allows the gas supply to be turned on and off with a switch instead of a manual valve. Also, you have a very clean and neat setup for the by-pass line. The only thing I would suggest is replacing the ball valves with needle valves, since they will make adjusting the burner a little easier.

Stacy
Click to expand...

Hello Stacy,

My original setup had needle valves. I had to replace them with ball valves when I switched from propane to residential pressure natural gas. The needle valves were just too restrictive for pressure under 1 PSI and would not work at all. BTW... I am really happy with this setup. It's really nice to never worry about filling tanks or having one run out in the middle of a project. :D

Eric
 
That is the right type, Phil.
I thought you had the schematic for my controller? A brief overview and explanation is:

The plans/schematic for the burner control system I designed is called a two-stage burner, because the burner cycles from high flame to low flame, and never goes out.
If you look at Eric's photo, you see the parallel paths the gas can take. After the gas goes through the first gas solenoid with the main supply attached ( you don't need this) the gas can go through a direct path with only a needle valve (he used ball valves) to control the flow. This is the LOW stage. It sets the lower limit of the forge, usually about 100F below the desired temp.
The other path (upper in his photo) has a gas solenoid that is actuated by the PID. It turns the gas on when more heat is needed. It has a needle valve to set a high limit. By using controls on the blower, the flame can be controlled to a perfect atmosphere all the time. Temperature control can be +/- 1-2 degrees if desired.

Longer threads and schematics can be found here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635924&page=2

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=523845

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=599423&highlight=PID
 
bladsmth said:
If you look at Eric's photo, you see the parallel paths the gas can take. After the gas goes through the first gas solenoid with the main supply attached ( you don't need this) the gas can go through a direct path with only a needle valve (he used ball valves) to control the flow.
Click to expand...

Hello Stacy, You are absolutely correct in your statement above that you do not need the first solenoid in my pictured setup above to have the forge work and be controlled properly. My first setup only had one solenoid. I had an event happen that scared the shit out of me and made me add the second solenoid on the incoming gas feed. While using my forge, I had the power go out. :eek::eek::eek: In a split second there were flames coming out of my blower... Since the power failed, the lower stage of my contol unit kept feeding gas, the blower stopped so the gas took the path of least resistance, UP. A quick twist of the lower stage valve shut off the flames and that was that. I was right next to it when it happened so all was taken care of very quickly. Had I been across the shop it might have been a different story. Now with a solenoid placed right where the gas comes in, should the power fail, ALL gas is shut off. Having that solenoid on the front end of my gas supply gives me peace of mind and helps keep my shorts clean. :cool:

Eric
 
Eric,
I agree, it is a great improvement. I plan on adding it to my setup,too. ( propane)
I should have been more specific and stated that you don't need the primary line solenoid as part of the two-stage controller, but it is a great safety feature. On a direct natural gas line it would be required by code.
Thanks for bring this back up to the front line.

One a side note, the reason the blower should be piped so the unit is above the burner arm is that propane is heavier than air. It will run downhill and into the forge chamber if the blower shuts off. Also, the blower casing can't become filled with propane gas, and make a very nice bomb ( complete with spark ignition). It may never happen, but the blower should be above the burner if at all possible.
Eric's setup uses natural gas, which is lighter than air, and his blower should be below the burner.
Whichever gas is used, the blower should have at least two feet of piping before the gas insertion port.
Stacy
 
I saw (and forged with :D) Eric's convertible forge / salt bath. I didn't realize that his two stage burner had a name. It made such good sense to me. Thanks for the links to more info Stacy. Your tireless generosity in sharing is deeply appreciated.

One more question (for now). Are there any issues with the draw on a propane tank that need to be taken into consideration. For instance, is it possible to over tax a 20 lb tank? If so, would setting a couple up on a manifold of some sort resolve it?
 
A 20 pound tank will freeze up if running a lot of gas pressure. The problem is much less with a 100 pound tank ( Never froze one yet). A manifold connecting two or three 20# tanks works well.
Stacy
 
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