Gatco, dmt, lansky, or spyderco

dawsonbob said:
Wow! You've worn out a diamond stone in only 5 knives? You do know that there is a break in period on those stones, and they don't begin to sharpen properly till you've done around 5-10 blades, don't you? How long have I been sharpening? Oh, around 45 to 50 years. Over that time I've used all kinds of stones, from the cheap hardware store double-sided things to diamond stones from EZ-Lap and DMT. So far, I like the diamond DMT's best. I have never worn one out to the point it no longer sharpens. Treat 'em well, clean them, and they should last a life time. I've never even heard of anyone wearing one out. Your experience, obviously, may be different than mine, or that of many others. Perhaps you should ask on the Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment board how many people have ever worn out a DMT. I would be interested in knowing.
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I said 100-200 knives on a DMT benchstone. Learn to read. I've sharpened maybe 2000 knives so I have my preferences, you have yours. Diamond certainly does not last as long as ceramic stones.

I use and love diamond stones too as they are fast, but I can tell you that it's not only me who says they don't last as long as a ceramic stone and cost more.
 
cotdt said:
I said 100-200 knives on a DMT benchstone. Learn to read. I've sharpened maybe 2000 knives so I have my preferences, you have yours. Diamond certainly does not last as long as ceramic stones.

I use and love diamond stones too as they are fast, but I can tell you that it's not only me who says they don't last as long as a ceramic stone and cost more.
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Actually, what you said was "I've worn out many, both the ones by DMT and the ones by other companies. Those small DMT sticks last maybe 30 knives in my experience, the large benchstones maybe 100-200 knives. I use light to medium pressure depending on the grit. By light pressure I mean I only use the weight of the knife itself to sharpen.

How long have you sharpened? After just 5 knives, you should be able to feel the stone getting finer. That's the diamond wearing down and breaking out from the nickel matrix. It just gets finer and finer until it's all gone and no longer sharpens."

You're right. You didn't say 5 knives, you said 30, and after 5 knives you can feel the stones getting finer. You also said that you've "worn out many" diamond stones. My point was that I've never worn out a diamond stone, and I've never seen it happen. But then again, there are many things in this world that I haven't seen. I may not have your experience, though. I haven't sharpened 2,000 knives on diamond stones yet, and probably never will (I'm old, and probably won't last that long).

I have absolutely nothing against ceramic stones; they work pretty well. I just have trouble with someone saying the diamond stones are junk. The original poster was looking for a system to use, and stated a preference for diamond stones: I happen to think the DMT system fills the bill. YMMV.
 
cotdt said:
I said 100-200 knives on a DMT benchstone. Learn to read. I've sharpened maybe 2000 knives so I have my preferences, you have yours. Diamond certainly does not last as long as ceramic stones.

I use and love diamond stones too as they are fast, but I can tell you that it's not only me who says they don't last as long as a ceramic stone and cost more.
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DMT stones do NOT wear out unless you bear down on them and damage them. I use DMT exclusively, they break-in/wear-in but they do not wear out.

I have even used a very cheap diamond stone to flatten waterstones for quite some time and it has not lost any of its effectivness.

When someone says that they wore out a diamond stone due to sharpening they either used way too much pressure and ripped out the diamonds or their just talking out their A$$.
 
dawsonbob said:
You're right. You didn't say 5 knives, you said 30, and after 5 knives you can feel the stones getting finer. You also said that you've "worn out many" diamond stones. My point was that I've never worn out a diamond stone, and I've never seen it happen. But then again, there are many things in this world that I haven't seen. I may not have your experience, though. I haven't sharpened 2,000 knives on diamond stones yet, and probably never will (I'm old, and probably won't last that long).

I have absolutely nothing against ceramic stones; they work pretty well. I just have trouble with someone saying the diamond stones are junk. The original poster was looking for a system to use, and stated a preference for diamond stones: I happen to think the DMT system fills the bill. YMMV.
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If you're getting more than 30 knives from the DMT sticks, my hats off to you. I glue those DMT sticks onto my EdgePro and they are very fast, but not cost-effective as they wear out.

Well as you mention, there is a break-in period of around 5 knives before they start getting fine, and this is my experience as well. However, for me it continues to get finer and finer while sharpening slower and slower. When it starts getting very slow then I consider them worn out and replace them with new ones.

I never said DMT diamond was junk, else I wouldn't use them. I said that they are more expensive than ceramic and don't last as long.
 
knifenut1013 said:
DMT stones do NOT wear out unless you bear down on them and damage them. I use DMT exclusively, they break-in/wear-in but they do not wear out.

I have even used a very cheap diamond stone to flatten waterstones for quite some time and it has not lost any of its effectivness.

When someone says that they wore out a diamond stone due to sharpening they either used way too much pressure and ripped out the diamonds or their just talking out their A$$.
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If you're suggesting that the stones break in and then stop getting finer/slower, my experience is different. For me it's pretty much a linear process of the stone getting finer/slower until it's too slow and I replace it. I do both sharpen and lap ceramic stones on 3"x8" DMT benchstones, and on the coarser stones I do use medium pressure to speed things up. I can tell you that the stone is a lot slower than after the break-in period and a hell of a lot slower than original. It still works, but I consider it worn out for my purposes.
 
cotdt said:
If you're getting more than 30 knives from the DMT sticks, my hats off to you. I glue those DMT sticks onto my EdgePro and they are very fast, but not cost-effective as they wear out.

Well as you mention, there is a break-in period of around 5 knives before they start getting fine, and this is my experience as well. However, for me it continues to get finer and finer while sharpening slower and slower. When it starts getting very slow then I consider them worn out and replace them with new ones.

I never said DMT diamond was junk, else I wouldn't use them. I said that they are more expensive than ceramic and don't last as long.
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To me, saying they wear out quickly and don't last is calling them junk. It could be your technique or that you're trying to use too fine a stone for profiling that's causing your problem, but I stand by my statement that I have never seen a DMT stone worn out. As I said, YMMV.
 
If you lap a ceramic stone then yes you can wear out a diamond hone. I have Dia-folds, benchstones, and a few other diamond products and through normal sharpening of knives I have never been able to wear out a diamond hone. You want them to wear in and get finer they work better when they do. To say that the benchstone will wear out in 100-200 sharpenings is not true, it took 6 months and hundreds of knives before my XX-fine finally broke-in and its still working just fine and removing lots of metal for its very fine 3 micron abrasive size.

I have also used the dia-folds hundreds of times and they have yet to wear out either.
 
dawsonbob said:
I stand by my statement that I have never seen a DMT stone worn out.
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So if I post a picture of a worn out DMT stone, would still stand by your statement? :cool:

I guess if you're used to using a diamond stone (whether in a system or a benchstone freehand) and be used to the stone breaking in over time as you use it, then there is no issue. I'm just used to something that is consistent and it irks me when a stone is not. If I'm used to giving 20 strokes when sharpening the same knife over and over again, I don't want to change my routine.

For my freehand sharpening, my set of Naniwa waterstones give much better tactile feedback to let me know if the edge is touching, cut at a similar speed for same grit, are offered in much finer grits, is consistent, is cheaper and longer-lasting than DMT benchstones. The final results of any sharpening system or stones are more or less the same, but the cost, speed, and ease of use can be widely different.
 
No, while it might be interesting, I don't think a picture of a worn out stone really tell us anything. It strikes me as odd that, knowing that a diamond stone needs a break-in period, you're throwing them away before they achieve their optimal stage. Why don't you try breaking them in, and then searching for consistency?

We are all different, and if your water-stones are what work for you, then by all means use those.
 
knifenut1013 said:
If you lap a ceramic stone then yes you can wear out a diamond hone. I have Dia-folds, benchstones, and a few other diamond products and through normal sharpening of knives I have never been able to wear out a diamond hone. You want them to wear in and get finer they work better when they do. To say that the benchstone will wear out in 100-200 sharpenings is not true, it took 6 months and hundreds of knives before my XX-fine finally broke-in and its still working just fine and removing lots of metal for its very fine 3 micron abrasive size.

I have also used the dia-folds hundreds of times and they have yet to wear out either.
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How strange...

Ben Dale told me that sharpening steel knives on diamonds will wear them out faster than sharpening ceramics. He said that the diamonds will essentially "sink" into the softer steel and will be torn out of its matrix as the steel is being sharpened. With ceramics, the material is hard enough so that the diamonds will simply slide off instead of being stuck and torn off.

This is why he says his diamond stones are specifically for sharpening ceramic knives, and not intended to be used for regular steel knives.
 
Noctis3880 said:
How strange...

Ben Dale told me that sharpening steel knives on diamonds will wear them out faster than sharpening ceramics. He said that the diamonds will essentially "sink" into the softer steel and will be torn out of its matrix as the steel is being sharpened. With ceramics, the material is hard enough so that the diamonds will simply slide off instead of being stuck and torn off.

This is why he says his diamond stones are specifically for sharpening ceramic knives, and not intended to be used for regular steel knives.
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I'm not going to waste my breath any more on the subject of diamond hones. Ceramics are harder than steel and a ceramic knife will cause more damage to a diamond hone than a steel knife, you can use a ceramic knife to break-in a diamond hone though, its what I did. With proper use diamonds don't wear out they wear in, end of story.
 
I have used the DMT Aligner™ Deluxe Kit with great success
It is simple to use, and gives consistantly good results.
You need minimal skills in sharpening to use it.

Because I use it to rebevel Queen D2 blades, which are quite hard; I added the Extra Course stone to the set.

It should not cost more than $50, and another $14 for the Extra Course.
 
My experience with DMT's has been mixed. I have worn out (not just broken-in) a few small DMT diafolds after three or four years of use. I have some DMT plates that are still going strong. This disagreement over whether they wear out and how fast is typical on the forums. Folks are just reporting their own experience.

Back to the original question:
I would still recommend the DMT set. :thumbup:
You'll get your money's worth even if you wear out the stones some day.
 
I've noticed that many folks are prone towards accidentally applying too much pressure when using the more coarse stones. The key with diamond is to let the diamonds do the work. I have noticed also that DMT stones are a bit more fine for what they call themselves (coarse, medium, fine, etc.) than those from other manufacturers, so bear that in mind.

We have some diafolds at the cutlery store where I work, and I've sharpened thousands of knives with them without them wearing out. They've been in use nearly every single day for the past four years. We've used them not only on knives, but also to deburr or dull other disparate objects, including taking the sharp edge off of chips in display case glass. No noticeable loss of efficacy so far. ;)
 
I recently got the Gatco kit from Cabela's. What a great deal! I will be adding an Extra fine stone to the kit though.
 
Hawk45 said:
I recently got the Gatco kit from Cabela's. What a great deal! I will be adding an Extra fine stone to the kit though.
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The extra fine and ultimate finishing hones are well worth the money.

A stropping step can further refine the edge and can be pretty inexpenxive to implement.
 
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