Gatco kit vs Meyerco pull through?

[mykem]

I inadvertantly started a ruckus here the other day by saying i was happy with the quick and dirty sharpening job a Meyerco pull through sharpener does on my old, beat up Endura 4 work knife.

You would have thought i was committing a crime by using a pull through. I put up pictures but i can't find them for some reason. Did a blade lover sabotage me? I'm only half kidding.

Anyway, i broke out the Gatco kit today and spent a little more than 8 minutes (i know this is no tlme at all to some of you to sharpen a blade) sharpening the Endura using two stones. That's 16 times more time than a quickie sharpening takes with the Meyerco.

The Gatco job LOOKS a hell of a lot better but i swear it doesn't seem to cut better. Remember, this is a working knife and i don't separate molecules into their smaller components at work.

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[bucketstove]

The Gatco job LOOKS a hell of a lot better but i swear it doesn't seem to cut better. Remember, this is a working knife and i don't separate molecules into their smaller components at work.

Hi,
What grit stones are you using?
How are you apexing, burr based or reflection based?
How are you removing/minimizing the burr, double angle or wood or stropping?
What angle is that?
What do you cut at work, cardboard or bags/rope?

 

[mykem]

Hi,
What grit stones are you using?
How are you apexing, burr based or reflection based?
How are you removing/minimizing the burr, double angle or wood or stropping?
What angle is that?
What do you cut at work, cardboard or bags/rope?

Medium and fine Gatco hones dressed w/ a very slight amout of honing oil.

No burrs formed this time. I did it fast, real fast. And yes, there is reflection so no true apex, not as sharp as it could be. But sharp enough for what i need.

Quick cardboard strop.

30 deg.

the knife is used to cut cardboard, cement bags, rope, heavy fence cover sheeting and boxes that are enclosed by thick plastic straps which have four thin metal wires imbedded inside the straps. We used to joke about getting some jaws of life for the straps.

After "stropping" the blade on my jeans (really cleaning, not stropping : ) ), i cut sandwiches and slice cantaloupes, apples oranges etc. at lunch and on breaks.

 

[wvdavidr]

With no burr formed, the knife wasn't truly sharp. Instead of returning to the pull-through, I would suggest this: Sharpen it to a burr and finish sharpening. Also, make a note of the angle and where it was placed in the clamp. You can return to this setting or, for quick touch-ups, go to the next higher setting on the GATCO. I believe you'll get better results that will make the initial sharpening time worthwhile.

 

[bucketstove]

Medium and fine hones

No burrs with it this time. And yes, there is reflection so no true apex, i guess.

25 deg.

the knife is used to cut cardboard, cement bags, rope and a lot of boxes that are enclosed by thick plastic straps which have thin metal wire imbedded in the straps.

update: 30 deg.

Is that 30 degree setting on the gatco? As in 30 degrees per side?

Well there's your problem

If you haven't apexed in 8 minutes,
using gatco medium or 220-grit (many peoples coarse)
after some 480 strokes (assuming a slow rate of 1 per second *60seconds*8min),
with a really obtuse angle of 2530 degrees per side (5060 degrees inclusive),
you need a much coarser stone
and need to use more force, like 2-3lb for starters (not advisable for diamonds and other fragile stones)

The blade looks really thick in the picture, and at 2530 degrees per side, that is really thick, its time for a regrind/reprofile,
you should take your coarsest stone,
and maybe an hour,
and get that down to 10-15 degrees per side,
you know, make it a knife again
see optimum knife edge angles and what they should be able to do/slice/chop

Only the regrind is slow, after that, regular full sharpening is 10 minutes tops (2 min if everything clicks),
but you can always do high angle/microbevel/ten second touch ups on the stone or with the meyerco in between

 

[mykem]

With no burr formed, the knife wasn't truly sharp. Instead of returning to the pull-through, I would suggest this: Sharpen it to a burr and finish sharpening. Also, make a note of the angle and where it was placed in the clamp. You can return to this setting or, for quick touch-ups, go to the next higher setting on the GATCO. I believe you'll get better results that will make the initial sharpening time worthwhile.

The thing is sometimes, depending on what's happening at work, the blade gets dull and when i start to have get too strong with the blade i know it's bad for the blade to say nothing of potentially dangerous.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to use the gatco kit on the job. A few light strokes on the mayerco pull through and i"m back in business.

I can just see me using the gatco kit at work and a general contractor asking a foreman, "what the hell is that guy doing?"

The meyerco fits in my pocket and takes about 30 seconds, maybe less, to give me a working edge.

I mean i know the gatco, with proper time and effort is far and away the better sharpener, no question about it. But sometimes it's use just isn't feasible timewise.

 

[DeadboxHero]

For my work knife, I use a Fallkniven DC3

It's the best between both the gatco and the meyerco for speed and edge quality.



I'd rather just form a bomb apex that will last the day and can be maintained with honing.

 

[WuGod]

Thin geometry makes resharpening FAST, even stropping on shiny magazines, or cardboard, or phone books or whatever, then micro bevels on whatever stone (I am coming to love 600 grit diamond) as fast as your pull thru with way better edges. I wouldn't cut wires with it tho.

 

[bgentry]

Medium and fine Gatco hones dressed w/ a very slight amout of honing oil.And yes, there is reflection so no true apex, not as sharp as it could be. But sharp enough for what i need.
[...]

the knife is used to cut cardboard, cement bags, rope, heavy fence cover sheeting and boxes that are enclosed by thick plastic straps which have four thin metal wires imbedded inside the straps.

Here's why our guy Mykem is sharpening like he is. He uses a knife hard. Cutting plastic strap with wire embedded will dull a really sharp knife and QUICK. These kinds of tasks are why most construction guys use utility knives. Because the work is so hard that the edge is no longer "sharp" in just a few minutes of use.

As he said, he doesn't even sharpen to a fully apexed edge: The edge still reflects light. Why? Because it's going to be in that state in just a few minutes of cutting anyway, so why bother. Many industrial cutters are sharpened the same way. Hell, look at lawn mower blades. They are not brought to an apex: They are squared off. Because keeping the edge "thick" minimizes damage to the edge. Which is what our man is doing here too: Keeping the actual cutting edge rather thick.

Really, just like a box cutter/utility knife, the geometry is what does the cutting here. The edge itself isn't really sharp. But the combo of the thick-ish edge and somewhat thin blade lets it cut what he needs to. Including apples and sandwiches.

For this kind of use, I can't think of any steel that would hold up with a fully apexed fine edge for very long at all.

While it pains me a tiny bit to see what that Endura blade looks like... if it works for him, I should be happy for him. It's certainly nicer than carrying around a utility knife.

Brian.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Here's why our guy Mykem is sharpening like he is. He uses a knife hard. Cutting plastic strap with wire embedded will dull a really sharp knife and QUICK. These kinds of tasks are why most construction guys use utility knives. Because the work is so hard that the edge is no longer "sharp" in just a few minutes of use.

As he said, he doesn't even sharpen to a fully apexed edge: The edge still reflects light. Why? Because it's going to be in that state in just a few minutes of cutting anyway, so why bother. Many industrial cutters are sharpened the same way. Hell, look at lawn mower blades. They are not brought to an apex: They are squared off. Because keeping the edge "thick" minimizes damage to the edge. Which is what our man is doing here too: Keeping the actual cutting edge rather thick.

Really, just like a box cutter/utility knife, the geometry is what does the cutting here. The edge itself isn't really sharp. But the combo of the thick-ish edge and somewhat thin blade lets it cut what he needs to. Including apples and sandwiches.

For this kind of use, I can't think of any steel that would hold up with a fully apexed fine edge for very long at all.

While it pains me a tiny bit to see what that Endura blade looks like... if it works for him, I should be happy for him. It's certainly nicer than carrying around a utility knife.

Brian.

I used to keep a 26° inclusive 60 grit edge from a tile rubbing stone on my work knives - sometimes if feeling fancy I'd microbevel at 80 grit...This was years ago, but recently found one of them with an edge from those days. Barely scraped off some arm hair but parted freehanging T shirt with a light swat - perfect. That sort of edge last a long time with much abuse and very easy to touch up.

 

[bgentry]

I used to keep a 26° inclusive 60 grit edge from a tile rubbing stone on my work knives - sometimes if feeling fancy I'd microbevel at 80 grit...This was years ago, but recently found one of them with an edge from those days. Barely scraped off some arm hair but parted freehanging T shirt with a light swat - perfect. That sort of edge last a long time with much abuse and very easy to touch up.

You originally inspired me to try very low grit edges. I think you said you used 80 grit edges to cut stacks of paper that were jammed in print machines and this type of cutting just destroyed higher grit edges. I've found lower grit edges to be pretty durable by comparison. A lot more durable in fact.

But what the OP describes seems like it would dull any kind of regular knife edge. Did you do tasks like his with your 60 and 80 grit edges? Cut through (soft) metal and (sorta) hard plastic?

I've never seen your freehanging tshirt test but it sounds like fun.

Brian.

 

[mykem]

For my work knife, I use a Fallkniven DC3

It's the best between both the gatco and the meyerco for speed and edge quality.



I'd rather just form a bomb apex that will last the day and can be maintained with honing.

DeadboxHero,

We are proof of the fact that Spydercos make great work knives.

Not a lot of folks think of them that way, but it's true. In the 10 years i've been working this knife, i wonder how many cheaper knives, or utulity knives or heavy duty box cutters i would have gone through?

The only thing i don't use mine for is to pry things other than those big boy staples. I just get under them and twist the blade so the top of the blade, the unsharpened thick part does the heavy lifting.

 

[craytab]

DeadboxHero,

We are proof of the fact that Spydercos make great work knives.

Not a lot of folks think of them that way, but it's true.

Um, tons of folks around here consider spydercos working knives.

 

[HeavyHanded]

You originally inspired me to try very low grit edges. I think you said you used 80 grit edges to cut stacks of paper that were jammed in print machines and this type of cutting just destroyed higher grit edges. I've found lower grit edges to be pretty durable by comparison. A lot more durable in fact.

But what the OP describes seems like it would dull any kind of regular knife edge. Did you do tasks like his with your 60 and 80 grit edges? Cut through (soft) metal and (sorta) hard plastic?

I've never seen your freehanging tshirt test but it sounds like fun.

Brian.

Those bands he's describing are brutal - I reach for a Stanley 099 or snips if possible. Otherwise, keep it right up close to the choil/plunge and lever it up at one side of the strap and present it at an angle so the displaced material has somewhere to go - do not let it slide or it will wreak havoc with the entire edge!

The worst my edges saw was a ton of tyraps, smaller gauge wiring, the odd impact with the frames on the presses, and that clay coated cover stock was absolutely brutal.

The tshirt test is THE coarse edge snaggy test, and great way to start breaking down old shirts into rags. While I haven't used it in years, it was my gold standard - a swipe along the face of the fabric using only the belly with a quick, shallow cut. Most finer edges have to use a bit of tip to start the cut, a really coarse edge will grab immediately.

I drifted away from those edges as my job description changed, and Home Depot changed the composition of their tile rubbing stones to a variety that glazes over very quickly - almost useless for utility sharpening.

 

[mykem]

Um, tons of folks around here consider spydercos working knives.

Um, tons? Tons of folks? You know tons of folks? And you took a poll of the tonnage, did you?

Look, i'm not talking about letter-opener working knives. I'm talking about a working knife that can handle stuff on a construction site.

i beg to disagree but you don't know what you're talking about. Not a lot of folks consider Spydercos REAL working knives. I know a lot of workmen and women and not one carries a spyderco for job related stuff. Not one!

Somehow i get the feeling if i said the sky was blue, you'd say it was green. And if i said the sky was green, you'd say it was blue.

You're a funny guy.

 

[Bobby3326]

I use my spyderco pm2 on job sites...everything from plastic banding, wood shims, to cardboard.

 

[mykem]

I use my spyderco pm2 on job sites...everything from plastic banding, wood shims, to cardboard.

Bobby, do you know many others or any others that use spydercos rough like we do?

I sure don't.

 

[Bobby3326]

Bobby, do you know many others or any others that use spydercos rough like we do?

I sure don't.

Actually yea quite a few...Or benchmades.

Especially after they see how much better a quality knife holds up compared to their $15 gas station knife.

 

[mykem]

Those bands he's describing are brutal - I reach for a Stanley 099 or snips if possible. Otherwise, keep it right up close to the choil/plunge and lever it up at one side of the strap and present it at an angle so the displaced material has somewhere to go - do not let it slide or it will wreak havoc with the entire edge!

The worst my edges saw was a ton of tyraps, smaller gauge wiring, the odd impact with the frames on the presses, and that clay coated cover stock was absolutely brutal.

The tshirt test is THE coarse edge snaggy test, and great way to start breaking down old shirts into rags. While I haven't used it in years, it was my gold standard - a swipe along the face of the fabric using only the belly with a quick, shallow cut. Most finer edges have to use a bit of tip to start the cut, a really coarse edge will grab immediately.

I drifted away from those edges as my job description changed, and Home Depot changed the composition of their tile rubbing stones to a variety that glazes over very quickly - almost useless for utility sharpening.

There's usually a bin of old, beat-up "common" tools on a site that anyone can use and put back. Sometimes there might be snips or other cutting tools around, sometimes not. Mostly not.

That's why a a spyderco is so great to have in the pocket. It's right there when you need it.

 

[mykem]

Actually yea quite a few...Or benchmades.

Especially after they see how much better a quality knife holds up compared to their $15 gas station knife.

Maybe it's a regional thing. No one around here that i know uses them for work.

And maybe a lot of the guys you work with are following your lead.

Or maybe the guys i work with are cheap bastards and won't shell out for a good blade.