Gauges and other accessories for milling machine

Erin Burke

Erin Burke

KnifeMaker...ish
Joined
May 19, 2003
Messages
1,330
Hey Guys,

I'm getting ready to place an order for a Seig X3 (Grizzly version) milling machine, and I am trying to nail down what accessories I'll need... primarily concerning gauges for squaring the mill/vise/material.

From what I can figure out - and please forgive me if I use incorrect nomenclature/terminology - I'll want a drop indicator and a test indicator. What range and graduation is prefered? Is a 1/2" range w/ 0.0005" graduation acceptable for the drop indicator? Is a 0.030" range w/ 0.0005" graduation acceptable for the test indicator? How about digital vs. dial?

I assume that I'll also need a magnetic base. Let me know if I'm mistaken.

Some other items on my purchase list:
  • 4" milling vise (expensive!!!:eek:)
  • R-8 Collet set (is a quick change set a good idea or should I stick w/ standard?)
  • Clamping kit
  • Parallel set (3/16" seems like a decent width for knife stuff)
  • Edge finder set
  • Wiggler/Center finder set
  • Drill chuck
Is there anything that I'm missing... other than tooling?

Erin
 
Erin Burke said:
From what I can figure out - and please forgive me if I use incorrect nomenclature/terminology - I'll want a drop indicator and a test indicator. What range and graduation is prefered? Is a 1/2" range w/ 0.0005" graduation acceptable for the drop indicator? Is a 0.030" range w/ 0.0005" graduation acceptable for the test indicator? How about digital vs. dial?

I assume that I'll also need a magnetic base. Let me know if I'm mistaken.

Erin
Click to expand...

Yeah, that will work. I like dial for this stuff, you can see what is happening better watching that needle wiggle back and forth.



Erin Burke said:
Some other items on my purchase list:
  • 4" milling vise (expensive!!!:eek:) a "good enough for your application" vice should be under $100
  • R-8 Collet set (is a quick change set a good idea or should I stick w/ standard?), stick with standard
  • Clamping kit you need this, make sure to get one that fits your t slots, I have four mills and they're all different.
  • Parallel set (3/16" seems like a decent width for knife stuff) yup
  • Edge finder set yup
  • Wiggler/Center finder set redundant
  • Drill chuck yup
Is there anything that I'm missing... other than tooling? squirt bottle and some water soluble cutting fluid (coolant), calipers (if you don't already have them), way oil (vetra #2 is good) and oil can. Might also want a tap T holder that fits up in your drill chuck and a bottle of molydee
Erin
Click to expand...
 
This is my personal opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, so take this fwiw ;)

I have a half dozen indicators. All different shapes, styles & sizes. The only ones I've used in the past couple years have been my 2 Interapids, like shown in the Enco link. I very seldom use my Drop style indicators. If I do it's mainly to measure travel on my Lathe. I wouldn't pick a Drop Indicator up at this time unless you have a specific need or intended use.

This is, IMHO, the Cadillac, or Gold Standard of Indicators. It's on sale, and if taken care of, will last several lifetimes ..............
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=606-4814&PMPXNO=952670&PARTPG=INLMK32

I notice you don't have a good holder listed.
Here's a real handy holder for your indicator. This one is a generic holder, modeled after the original Indicol. Make sure you get the proper size holder, matched to your spindle diameter :)
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=3259993&PMAKA=625-8522


:thumbup:
 
Last edited:
Please give a review of the machine after you have used it! i've been considering one lately. the whole round column on mine can get frustrating at times.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Yeah, that will work. I like dial for this stuff, you can see what is happening better watching that needle wiggle back and forth.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nathan... I have to admit, when I posted these questions I had you in mind. I guess that's what you get when you have "the Machinist" in your user name. ;)


  • 4" milling vise (expensive!!!:eek:) a "good enough for your application" vice should be under $100
Click to expand...

Really??? I was looking at a 4" high-precision lock-down milling vise that was going to run me close to $300 w/o a rotating base. (Grizzly T10063)
Maybe I'm over-doing it?

  • Wiggler/Center finder set redundant
Click to expand...

I am obviously new to the use of some of these tools. Why is this redundant?

Is there anything that I'm missing... other than tooling? squirt bottle and some water soluble cutting fluid (coolant), calipers (if you don't already have them), way oil (vetra #2 is good) and oil can. Might also want a tap T holder that fits up in your drill chuck and a bottle of molydee
Click to expand...

I already have several sets of calipers, but thanks for all the other great recommendations.

Erin
 
Because you can use the edge finder to find a center.

If you don't go with a dro, someday you might want to pick up some digital scales from Ebay and mound them. I did and it makes it way easier to figure out where I am.

Nathan, I have a quick change collet set and love it. Why do you say stick with standard?
 
Quick change collet set would be nice but I would start with a regular set. Starting tooling is gonna cost you enough already the extra money is better spent of other stuff. You can always upgrade later.
Here is a milling vise I've heard is good. Maybe someone else knows about them. http://www.glacern.com/gsv_440 A good vise is a place where starting money is better spent.
A keyless drill chuck would also be nice. Rohm makes a good one at a reasonable price. Check Enco. (I guess you already did of course, I am still waiting for one of their 40% or more off offers. :()
Solid carbide end mills are "tha bomb"! :D

You'll love your mill.
 
Jim,

It is my opinion that the lower cost and additional rigidity and accuracy of running a collet directly from the spindle offsets the advantages of a quick change adapter system, though I could certainly be wrong. I am probably a more creature of habit that I would like to admit. I don't use my R8 mill a lot, so the speed advantage might be lost on me.

Erin,

My 6" Kurt vices only cost me about $400, I can't see spending that kind of money for a little starter vice. Take a look at this vice:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=27585933&PMAKA=TC425-7240

at $87 and free shipping it is a pretty good deal. I have several of them. With one exception they work fine for most class of work.


David,

I'm with you. I pretty much always use my dial test indicators. Though a plunger type is good for making accurate direct measurement. They're handy on small machines where you might need to shift your work, but that hasn't come up in years.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Jim,
Erin,

My 6" Kurt vices only cost me about $400, I can't see spending that kind of money for a little starter vice. Take a look at this vice:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=27585933&PMAKA=TC425-7240

at $87 and free shipping it is a pretty good deal. I have several of them. With one exception they work fine for most class of work.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendation Nathan. Saving money sounds good to me. You ever have problems with the work lifting up when tightened in the vise? Do these vises have an internal mechanism similar to Kurt's ang-lock to hold the work down? Thanks again.
 
I have had little trouble with my quick change setup. I got it off Ebay and it came with 23 collets for like $125. It is so much faster to change out sizes. I often use a collet to drill instead of putting in the chuck because of the speed of change. You are probably right about the standards being a little more rigid and accurate. But then I don't think I would be capable of using the extra accuracy. :o Jim
 
Erin Burke said:
Thanks for the recommendation Nathan. Saving money sounds good to me. You ever have problems with the work lifting up when tightened in the vise? Do these vises have an internal mechanism similar to Kurt's ang-lock to hold the work down? Thanks again.
Click to expand...

It has an anti lift mechanism, though not as nice as a Kurt. Click through to the master catalogue page to read about it.

Most people don't really use the Kurt "correctly" anyway. You're supposed to remove the moving jaw and put in these little orings to prelift the jaw and adjust the amount of lift with a set screw adjusted for the work you're doing. Most folks omit the orings and keep them adjusted tight. And if that is the case, I think an anti lift cheap vice is about the same for most classes of work.

The big difference I see is flatness and parallelism of the bed, straightness of the stationary jaw and uniformity of bed height for ganging up vices on a table for production machining. The Kurt is a better vice (duh). 4 times better? For certain classes of work it is - that is why I own them. But for someone starting out and on a budget I think a import antilift vice is okay.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. I have placed an order and am looking forward to getting the Mill (and accessories).:D

Several folks have mentioned that I should get a fly-cutter. Are there any recommendations for a good fly-cutter for this size of mill?

balibalistic said:
Please give a review of the machine after you have used it! i've been considering one lately. the whole round column on mine can get frustrating at times.
Click to expand...

Shawn,

I'd be happy to give my impressions on the machine; however, as a newbie to milling, I'm not sure my initial opinions will mean much to somebody with experience. My impression from research is that there is a trade-off: you get a square column, but end up with less power than most round column units.

... and I still want to see photos of how you utilize your fancy aluminum fixture plate for your bali work. It looks like a really cool idea, but I'd like to see what it looks like in action.


Thanks again everyone... I'll keep you posted.

Erin
 
Erin Burke said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. I have placed an order and am looking forward to getting the Mill (and accessories).:D

Several folks have mentioned that I should get a fly-cutter. Are there any recommendations for a good fly-cutter for this size of mill?


Erin
Click to expand...

The beauty of the humble flycutter is it allows you to use a lathe tool custom ground to any profile you want and mill with it. You can mill threads with a flycutter, I have done it. You can cut an oring groove. You can mill a dovetail.

But pretty much all anybody ever uses them for is flattening a wide surface and leaving a good finish, and for this task they really really suck. They have to be turned fairly slow because they're out of balance, and they have one cutting edge per rotation, so they have to be fed very slow. And for whatever reason, nothing slings cutting fluid around a shop quite like a fly cutter.

So, by all means, get yourself a little 3" fly cutter. They're not expensive and no shop is complete without one. But also look for a face mill.

I have been seeing used facemills on Ebay dirt cheap. These are cool because they use inexpensive readily available inserts. They're better balanced (I regularly turn a 3" face mill at 10,000 RPM - sweet holy god) and they have lots of cuts per revolution so you can get a good finish and still feed at a decent feed rate. If you get a 6 flute and find your mill doesn't have enough balls for it, you can remove every other insert and cut with 3. Still too many? cut with 2. Still too many, use one and it will still be more rigid and better balanced than a flycutter.

wow. I guess I had some unresolved feelings about flycutters. They have wasted so much of my time... I think I hate them...
 
If you need a vise that is closer than the previously recommended....Try Glacern. I have recently bought one and am impressed with the bang for the buck aspect.

http://www.glacern.com/gsv_440

4 inch vise...great quality and waay cheaper than kurt..You might also check out some of their other items. Reasonably priced.

No affiliation here whatsoever. Just a recommendation
 
Further on Nathan's comment: and if you start out using a fly cutter to flatten handle material, consider getting a carbide router bit that is actually designed to cut that type of stuff. It'll set you back around $40 (you already have a 1/2" collet, right?) and do a much better job on wood, stabilized or not. Probably on micarta-like things too, but I've only tried on one pair so far.
 
Erin, i use different fixtures for all kinds of machining task's. but my main fixtire is just a big aluminum plate with threaded holes. serves me well for most knifemaking tasks.

Definitly get yourself a 2" indexable endmill and a flycutter. you can do the "work" with the indexable and clean it right up with the flycutter. i baught an adjustable fly cutter off e-bay that goes from an inch to 8" which will cover 16" per rotation. but i cant extend it much past 3" or my machine wobbles.
 
David Wesner said:
I notice you don't have a good holder listed.
Here's a real handy holder for your indicator. This one is a generic holder, modeled after the original Indicol. Make sure you get the proper size holder, matched to your spindle diameter :)
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=3259993&PMAKA=625-8522


:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I checked out your link, and like the look of this holder; however, it doesn't appear that they carry that type of holder in a size that will fit my spindle (assuming I'm reading my mill specs correctly). Page 5 shows the spindle sleeve diameter as 2.28". The one you linked to has a clamping diameter of 1-7/8", and I haven't found anything that will accommodate the larger spindle diameter. Am I missing something?

Erin
 
Another mill question...

Is THIS FACE MILL from Ebay a reasonable unit to run on a small benchtop mill. I'm not sure whether I want to be driving anything larger than 2-1/2" with only 3/4hp (that's Chinese HP too ;))... though Nathan did mentionion that inserts could be removed.

I plan on using this for facing annealed steel and maybe copper/brass/aluminum/stainless... typical knifemaking stuff.

Thanks in advance.

Erin

BTW... mill is being delivered Friday afternoon. I'll post some photos when I get it all set up.
 
Yup. And there are some good deals on the SPG 434 inserts it takes. A couple bucks a insert with multiple cutting edges. Way better than a fly cutter for flattening something.
 
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