GEC “Hard Use”

[BP_]

Having finally found two patterns I can use one or the other of every day, I have a question for the more experienced GEC users. How “hard” do you use your knives, and how are they holding up over time? What types of tasks do you put them up against, and how do they fare?

While waiting on my beloved 72 LB to come back from warranty (blade play, front to back, per ‘usual’ on the 72’s. No big deal) I’ve been using my next favorite, my little 83 LB. Well, today is a day she got a little workout on the job. This isn’t unusual by any means, but today was a little different. Toward the end of the day, there was a fairly decent sized box (we’re talking 15ft x 5.5ft) that needed to be broken down and thrown in the recycle container. This is usually a task I would delegate to one of my guys, but today I decided, “what the hell, let’s work her out a little more.” We all do this, don’t we? It only needed enough cuts to fit in the dumpster, so I gave it three good cuts “sideways” (down the width, or “short part” of the box), tossed the scraps away, and folded my 83 back up and slipped her back in my pocket. Didn’t think anything of it, I’ve used her enough that she has my trust. All seemingly well and normal.

Fast forward a bit to me chatting with the boss man (about knives) on my way out the door, and he asks to see “that one knife you’ve been using a lot” (he is a “knife guy” to an extent. He at least knows how to handle a blade, and is interested in learning, so we chat and fondle steel quite a bit). As we talk, I explain to him I’m waiting on a knife to come back from warranty and expect it today, so he probably won’t see that one anymore for a while. He asks the problem, I explain (above). His response is the reason I made this thread. “So is this much blade play ok or not ok in your opinion?” (As he fondles my knife). I’m thinking to myself, “wait, what?? Blade play? On my rock solid 83? No way.” I ask for it back to confirm this impossibility (in my mind at the time, considering how it had been used that day), and sure enough, she’s rocking back and forth when in the open and locked position.

I have carried and used knives for years. I know and understand what “abusing” a knife is. I know and understand that different knives can withstand different levels of “use” and “abuse.” Both being relative terms, of course. This was a normal day, outside of this one task, and in no way was this what I would consider a “hard” task. Is this something that is considered normal for GEC? Do they just “loosen up” and require regular maintenance or “warranty” service? I have to admit, I am certainly not the type that can disassemble or adjust (depending on what “adjust” means) a traditional knife without some amount of direction. Possibly even supervision, depending on how deep I had to dive in. I just haven’t ever had one come loose on me this fast, as I have only been EDC’ing her literally every day for a couple months (maybe a tad less even, can’t remember exactly). So I am definitely interested in being educated on this one.

I am not complaining by any means. I have no real complaint, it’s more of a question to start a discussion.

This is not a “is blade play ok?” or “how much blade play is ok with you?” thread. She’s already boxed and will be headed back to PA tomorrow. No worries. I love that little knife. She’s mine forever. I just want to state that.

I would really like to hear others discuss experiences, and opinions.

 

[johnny twoshoes]

I’ve used a number of mine pretty hard, never to the point of abuse, but I use my knives as a tools.

Unfortunately GEC’s lockbacks have a tendency to develope blade play even under light use. I’m not sure if it’s a poor locking design, or what the issue may be. GEC has tightened up a couple for me and those knives turned out much better, but even they got lose after a while.

I chose the #73 for this reason, in the field it’s a beast for deer duties. I hate blade play and use my #72 sparingly, I stillcarry it every single day and I live with the play.

 

[paulhilborn]

I've experienced blade play in my CASE sodbuster cutting up heavy cardboard before, but never in my GEC Bull Nose. The Bull Nose has been used much harder than my 72 lockback ever has. When I say hard use I consider it being, push and pull cuts with at times a bit of torque on the blade/pivot area. My 72LB has vertical play albeit minor but no side to side play at all. Although I have never used my LB as hard as my Bull Nose/s

 

[jackknife]

I think it's totally unacceptable!

Thinking back to how many of those old Buck 110's I saw in the army, being used AND abused by young guys with little regard, very few of them got noticeable blade play. Considering how much GEC's cost, especially compared the tried and true 110, it's a shame. GEC needs to re-think how they are doing their locks. Somethings not right here.

Maybe GEC needs to send a survey team to Buck to see how they do it.

 

[Will Power]

It does seem as if blade-play might be inherent to GEC lockbacks. My 83 patterns have not displayed it yet but I admit, I've not been cutting down large boxes with them-mind you, that is not an unreasonable task by any means.

I had an early 72 or was it 73 lockback and that had plenty of movement in all directions from new which was disappointing, I gave the knife away as sending stuff back to GEC from Europe is not so tempting. However, the non locking patterns have been very solid and don't display blade-play so there must be something in the execution of their lockbacks that gives possible trouble. A 99 Wall St. I have is also solid but it's only had light carry and cutting regime, so this might not say much.

I wonder if it is the use of brass as a liner material that gives problems? It could be that its softness causes movement after a while whereas all steel construction would be tighter and thus less prone to wear? Expensive lockbacks (but not so much more than GEC) such as Moki from Japan and Fontanille-Pataud from France have absolutely no play from new or after years of use. Both use all stainless construction and are marvels of tightness. Conversely, I have inexpensive Chinese made Schrade OT 3 small lock backs that are also totally tight but they use brass liners. Who knows? But I think GEC are not quite up to scratch in this dept.

 

[Bartleby]

Sounds like it could be a blade pivot hardness issue.

 

[Dirk D]

refering to your question: I don´t think of cutting cardboard boxes as an abuse of any knife exept those very small full metal gentleman ones, which are more or less overwhelmed by cutting threads. So I think every knife has to stand those tasks and I will use every one of mine doing so. But I also recognized, that my 72 developed a little play in every direction by the time. Nothing to be concerned about, but noticeable.
I think, this is a problem with the general construction of traditionals with the pinned pivot and the material they use for the pivot. As Will already mentioned, I have less problems like those spotted with knife constructions using steel as liners and bolsters ( and maybe as pivot).
So in my opinion the development of play is a system- based problem of tradtitionals- live with it or change to modern ones

 

[jackknife]

refering to your question: I don´t think of cutting cardboard boxes as an abuse of any knife exept those very small full metal gentleman ones, which are more or less overwhelmed by cutting threads. So I think every knife has to stand those tasks and I will use every one of mine doing so. But I also recognized, that my 72 developed a little play in every direction by the time. Nothing to be concerned about, but noticeable.
I think, this is a problem with the general construction of traditionals with the pinned pivot and the material they use for the pivot. As Will already mentioned, I have less problems like those spotted with knife constructions using steel as liners and bolsters ( and maybe as pivot).
So in my opinion the development of play is a system- based problem of tradtitionals- live with it or change to modern ones

No, the problem is not with the traditional construction. Too many traditional lock backs over the years have been used heavily with no blade play. The Buck 110 has over a half century of use and abuse by many owners, as well as the old K55 Mercator. Both are traditional construction. I even have a little Gerber LST someone gave years ago, that I dislike and use for the dirty deeds hoping I can toss it in the trash can. But it has stood up amazingly well, and there's no blade play, even with it's cheaper plastic construction.

I think GEC has an Achillies heel and the making of a sturdy lock back is it.

I don't like the Buck 110, and I'm probably the only person on the planet who looked at the original 110 in 1964 and said "WTF???" Heavy as a boat anchor with one single blade? Nah.

But...the Buck's were cheap at the PX, and when they came out with the smaller steel frame esquire, I bought one to play with. I abused the ever lovin crappola out of it, and even though I really don't like a single blade knife, I had great respect for what that little Buck took and kept on trucking. No blade play, no lock play, held an edge great. A cousin down on Marylands eastern shore got it and used the heck out of it on his crabbing boat for years. It's right up there with the Gerber lock backs like the folding sportsman 1 and 2. And even the later plastic LST.

GEC delivers a nice knife, but they have problems. I see post after post about sending GEC's back because off a problem. Not being a GEC guy, I don't know the problems are overly picky owners, or GEC is an over priced nitch knife. But I do know this; if GEC can't make a simple lock back knife, a style that has ben made for over a century, without it loosening up under moderate use from cutting cardboard, they need to do some serious examination of their production methods.

I've always thought of GEC as sort of an over priced glitz knife, and seeing these posts dosen't convince me other wise. I guess I'm not a fan of the brand.

If this little plastic piece of whatever can go for years with outright abuse, there's no excuse for a high dollar GEC to become loose. The Gerber LST represents everything I hate in a knife; black plastic and bead blasted steel. Yet it has lasted.

 

[Bartleby]

many traditional kickbacks over the years have been used heavily with no blade play. The Buck 110 has over a half century of use and abuse by many owners, as well as the old K55 Mercator. Both are traditional construction.

I used the heck out of a Mercator K55 in the 80's to cut down boxes, gave it to my brother in law as a user knife in '86 when he started in the Post Office, he gave it back last year after he retired. No play in any direction. Not much paint left on the handle....

 

[Dirk D]

No, the problem is not with the traditional construction. Too many traditional kickbacks over the years have been used heavily with no blade play. The Buck 110 has over a half century of use and abuse by many owners, as well as the old K55 Mercator. Both are traditional construction. I even have a little Gerber LST someone gave years ago, that I dislike and use for the dirty deeds hoping I can toss it in the trash can. But it has stood up amazingly well, and there's no blade play, even with it's cheaper plastic construction.

I think GEC has an Achillies heel and the making of a sturdy lock back is it.

I don't like the Buck 110, and I'm probably the only person on the planet who looked at the original 110 in 1964 and said "WTF???" Heavy as a boat anchor with one single blade? Nah.

But...the Buck's were cheap at the PX, and when they came out with the smaller steel frame esquire, I bought one to play with. I abused the ever lovin crappola out of it, and even though I really don't like a single blade knife, I had great respect for what that little Buck took and kept on trucking. No blade play, no lock play, held an edge great. A cousin down on Marylands eastern shore got it and used the heck out of it on his crabbing boat for years. It's right up there with the Gerber lock backs like the folding sportsman 1 and 2. And even the later plastic LST.

GEC delivers a nice knife, but they have problems. I see post after post about sending GEC's back because off a problem. Not being a GEC guy, I don't know the problems are overly picky owners, or GEC is an over priced nitch knife. But I do know this; if GEC can't make a simple lock back knife, a style that has ben made for over a century, without it loosening up under moderate use from cutting cardboard, they need to do some serious examination of their production methods.

I've always thought of GEC as sort of an over priced glitz knife, and seeing these posts dosen't convince me other wise. I guess I'm not a fan of the brand.

I don´t go against your quote about the GEC issues, but concerning the Buck stability I´ve had other experiences. My Buck 110 anniversary edition has also side to side play, but I´ve to admid no up and down and the lock was rock solid. And I found out, that the diameter of the Pivot was much bigger than any of my other knives, so I assume, it is more solid.
I also have a Mercator with brass handles and this also develops side to side play, but it is very easy to fix, so no complains ´bout it.

And I agree, that there´s a kind of hype ´bout GEC, which is not referring to the over all quality. Especial the lockbacks are.... let´s say: well made knives, not more, not less. No reason to lift them to heaven in general

 

[spyderg]

I’ve got two GEC Tascosa’s. One has up and down play, the other slight side to side play. I’m sure neither will fail but it does bother me, especially considering my two Case lock backs are far more solid for less money. As far as GEC in hard use, I’ve beat the crap out of my #15 boys knife for a few years now and it’s no worse for the wear. It’s tackled tasks that were better suited to a larger locking knife and came out asking for more!

 

[Bartleby]

I also have a Mercator with brass handles and this also develops side to side play

I went with the stainless handle when I got a new one with no worries at all (seeing that I bought this is what caused my Bro in Law to return his retired one!).

 

[jackknife]

I used the heck out of a Mercator K55 in the 80's to cut down boxes, gave it to my brother in law as a user knife in '86 when he started in the Post Office, he gave it back last year after he retired. No play in any direction. Not much paint left on the handle....

Exactly what I'm talking about. If ever there was a time proven knife, the old k55 is it. Dates back to what, the 1900's? Abused by soldiers in two world wars, used by millions in everyday work. When I was stationed in Germany and we worked with local construction people, those black cat knives were a dime a dozen on job sites.

So what are they doing that GEC is not?

 

[jc57]

I occasionally use a GEC #12 Powderhorn Jack for cutting down cardboard boxes at home. I don't consider that hard use, just cutting stuff with a knife. It has no side-to-side blade play at all. I don't own any GEC lockbacks.

I have a Case Peanut that I also use to cut cardboard boxes (I use whatever is in my pocket when I need to cut a box). It doesn't have any side to side play either. I have some other Case knives that do have some side to side play, and not necessarily ones I have used heavily. It doesn't seem to be something I notice unless I go looking for it, and doesn't appear to affect their use.

My old Buck 110 I have owned since 1979 but used infrequently has a very small amount of side-to-side play if I hold the blade and try to wiggle it, and just the tiniest hint of up and down play if I try to do the same thing. Neither would be noticeable if I weren't trying to find it.

I tested a random sample of my other locking knives (Spyderco, Benchmade, Zero Tolerance, Kershaw) and all of them had a very small amount of side to side play if I held the blade and handle tightly and tried to get it to move. It is possible that I don't understand what it is people are referring to when they talk about blade play so I might not have the proper basis for judgement.

 

[oldmanrunning]

I had a Buck 112 back in the mid seventies and as I recall had no issues with blade play, I have owned many GEC knives also flawless and a couple of Queen Cutlery knives both of which developed slight blade play just enough to put me off them. My current go to hard use knife is a GEC #15 Red Micarta Beer Scout Knife with the bail removed it aint pretty but it takes and retains a good edge and is one of my all time favourites and after the great clearouts of 2016/17 it is one of two of my GECs that I kept, the other is a #25 small jack that I ground an easy open notch in. I am currently waiting on delivery of a #78 American Jack single spear blade in smooth white bone and a #66 Calf Roper in Gabon Ebony, it will be interesting to see how they stack up against my two proven favourites.

 

[Bartleby]

I don´t think of cutting cardboard boxes as an abuse of any knife exept those very small full metal gentleman ones, which are more or less overwhelmed by cutting threads.

True of a lot of the more recent gents knives out there. You might ought to try out an all metal pen knife from Sheffield or the USA made prior to the 1990's. Blades, pins, and springs were once made of stouter stuff then we see now. A lot of shopkeepers went through lifetimes of cutting cardboard with nothing but a humble pen knife. The old guys back in the day carried them because the worked.

 

[Dirk D]

True of a lot of the more recent gents knives out there. You might ought to try out an all metal pen knife from Sheffield or the USA made prior to the 1990's. Blades, pins, and springs were once made of stouter stuff then we see now. A lot of shopkeepers went through lifetimes of cutting cardboard with nothing but a humble pen knife. The old guys back in the day carried them because the worked.

Sorry, but I won´t go cutting cardboard with one of those

It might work..... but I also won´t go cleaning the house with a Tuxedo

 

[Bartleby]

It might work..... but I also won´t go cleaning the house with a Tuxedo

LOL! My Dad carried a stainless lobster as his EDC for years, but he was a suit guy for most of that time!

 

[kamagong]

I've always thought of GEC as sort of an over priced glitz knife, and seeing these posts dosen't convince me other wise. I guess I'm not a fan of the brand.

Hardly Carl. GEC is pricier than Case to be sure, but they are American made using old-fashioned manufacturing methods. More hand work involved drives up the cost. Plus they don't enjoy the economies of scale that Case does.

Do I wish they were less expensive? Sure, but whenever I got a GEC I paid the price willingly and always felt that I got my money's worth. Never regretted it. That's more than I can say of Case. Every time I've examined one it's left me feeling cold, and I've never been tempted to buy it even though they are much more affordable.

 

[Bartleby]

I pulled Dad's knife out of the shadowbox. He had sharpened away a noticeable amount of the main blade (as well as bent the tip and re-profiled the point). Pen blade looks shiny and new. No sign of wear to the nail file. Walks and talks with a snap, as a lobster should. No wobbles though.