GEC “Hard Use”

Speaking from the point of view of someone who lives outside the US.

I have seen time after time people saying "oh I had a little problem with my GEC. No big deal I will just send it back." I am guess there is some sort of flat rate envelope that makes this cheap and fast.

From outside America's borders, I might pay 30 dollars to get a package shipped that will arrive maybe in a couple of weeks. Or more. Possibly get snagged at customs going either direction. And I don't even have to cross any oceans.

For that 30 dollars, I am well on my way to purchasing a Case, a Buck or maybe a couple project knives from am antique shop. Do not get me wrong I love what GEC is doing with the old time this and hand finished that. Certainly I am willing to pay more for these things and especially being made in America. But receiving a knife that should not have left the factory in the first place or malfunctions under normal use is not worth it for me and sadly I won't know until it arrives. The greatest sin for me is mechanical ineptitude because it keeps the knife from being used as a knife. A slightly mismatched dye job or proud spring irks me as a knife nut but would not keep the knife from doing knifey things.

I have had a couple GECs and they were beautiful knives but I was not impressed with their mechanics. Their blades were very difficult to open with warm dry hands let alone out in the woods working. For now I will continue to admire all of yours and stick with my ol' reliables.
 
This thread has turned a bit from the original question it seems. “Hard use” is defined by each particular knife user over an actual defined standard of use. I wouldn’t define breaking down a box as “hard use”, but often times that’s the hardest job one’s pocket knife may face in its lifetime.

In particular GECs lockback design develops blade play in my experience, but none of their slipjoints that I’ve used have. I’ve used a lot of them over the years and they are tried and true even though GEC is still a young cutlery company.

Comparing a #72 to a Buck 110 is apples and oranges. Yes they are both lockbacks, but the heft of a 110 gives it an added benefit, it’s construction is pretty beefy. I love the 110, but couldn’t pocket carry one without noticing it on my person at all times, I’ve tried. I prefer the slim build of GECs #72 for pocket carry.

I can honestly say that the quality GEC consistently produces is higher than that of any production company I’ve come in contact with. So much so that I’m more willing to pay the extra fee it takes own one vs that of Case, or Buck. Case and Buck both mass produce pocket knives at a rate that I hope GEC never does as the quality would surely dip.

There have been a few complaints about the springs being lighter than before on a few of the newer patterns, but more often then not the complaint is of springs that are too heavy, there doesn’t seem to be a happy medium and if there is its hard to find while.
 
jmarston said:
Speaking from the point of view of someone who lives outside the US.

I have seen time after time people saying "oh I had a little problem with my GEC. No big deal I will just send it back." I am guess there is some sort of flat rate envelope that makes this cheap and fast.

From outside America's borders, I might pay 30 dollars to get a package shipped that will arrive maybe in a couple of weeks. Or more. Possibly get snagged at customs going either direction. And I don't even have to cross any oceans.

For that 30 dollars, I am well on my way to purchasing a Case, a Buck or maybe a couple project knives from am antique shop. Do not get me wrong I love what GEC is doing with the old time this and hand finished that. Certainly I am willing to pay more for these things and especially being made in America. But receiving a knife that should not have left the factory in the first place or malfunctions under normal use is not worth it for me and sadly I won't know until it arrives. The greatest sin for me is mechanical ineptitude because it keeps the knife from being used as a knife. A slightly mismatched dye job or proud spring irks me as a knife nut but would not keep the knife from doing knifey things.

I have had a couple GECs and they were beautiful knives but I was not impressed with their mechanics. Their blades were very difficult to open with warm dry hands let alone out in the woods working. For now I will continue to admire all of yours and stick with my ol' reliables.
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Well stated. I have had the similar experience with makers in the UK, shipping costs and customs issues are indeed an important consideration when transacting business internationally.
 
johnny twoshoes said:
Comparing a #72 to a Buck 110 is apples and oranges. Yes they are both lockbacks, but the heft of a 110 gives it an added benefit, it’s construction is pretty beefy. I love the 110, but couldn’t pocket carry one without noticing it on my person at all times, I’ve tried. I prefer the slim build of GECs #72 for pocket carry.
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Agreed. It sounds like the Mercator K55 is a better comparison, but its working parts are fairly substantial for its size and weight.
 
I personally have owned (not all currently) over 200 GECs, and have had problems with 2 of them. One had a pin crack, the other had an over-spun spring pin that went too far into the cover on one side. I think less than 1% return rate is pretty good for a production knife. I truly believe that most of the negative comments about GECs are from new to traditionals younger knifers who unreasonably expect perfection.

I only have one GEC that I've put to what I would term hard use (prolonged cardboard cutting and yard use). It's a #23 linerlock in stag, and has held up very well. It has some up and down movement, typical of the springed linerlock, and only the most barely discernable side to side play after quite a bit of vigorous cutting of some pretty tough stuff.

9dVqEBg.jpg
 
johnny twoshoes said:
I’ve used a number of mine pretty hard, never to the point of abuse, but I use my knives as a tools.

Unfortunately GEC’s lockbacks have a tendency to develope blade play even under light use. I’m not sure if it’s a poor locking design, or what the issue may be. GEC has tightened up a couple for me and those knives turned out much better, but even they got lose after a while.

I chose the #73 for this reason, in the field it’s a beast for deer duties. I hate blade play and use my #72 sparingly, I stillcarry it every single day and I live with the play.
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So pretty much all GEC lock backs get a little lock rock. Nothing to be concerned about. Even the slip joints get a little side knock if you use them. Not much, we're talking just barely enough to be acceptable. These knives aren't made with screws like modern folders, they're just pinned together. Not weak by any stretch, but it's fine if they move a little bit.

BTW, my number one pet peeve on a knife used to be blade wobble. But I destroyed a GEC 92 one time just to see what it would take to cause a GEC to fail. In the end, it took me working on it with pliers and a hammer. I bent the blade to about 30 degrees and it snapped right back. Had some side play, but it was still fine.
 
As far as I am concerned, lock play on a locking traditional (lock back or liner lock) is just part of the knife...

The spring is what offers the majority of the blade bearing forces, and the lock is a safety net. Due to that, I tend to give locking traditionals a pass when they have a slight amount of lock play.

If the spring/blade junction is tight, and there is no play between the blade/spring, I will look beyond most minor play prior to the lock engaging. I am not looking at the lock as I would a modern frame lock, where lock play would manifest itself as blade play (unless we are talking about the lock of an Opinel, in which case it would do so as well).

Spring/blade = does the work and play here would result in my sending a knife in for a warranty repair.

Lock/blade = is a nice luxury t have on a traditional, but if there is a bit of play prior to lock engagement, I normally don't think twice about it, if I like the pattern.
 
I've had a 72LB for roughly 2 years and have carried and used it a lot (5 days a week). I carry others with it so it doesn't get 100 percent of the use, all things considered it is holding up really well.

I don't have it on me to check play, but I remember it being fairly tight.

Knives2.jpeg
 
Great thoughts on both sides of the fence. I agree to some extent, that using a Lockback knife in an abusive manner will naturally create some play. I also agree that it does not effect performance as a whole.

I really love my GEC Lockback knives. I am just a fan of single blade clip point lockbacks, something about them paired with a good leatherman is just efficient in my opinion.

All that said, I also agree with some of you that said blade play is unacceptable on a knife of this quality, considering the price point. You can get “solid” knives (in the manner we are referring within this thread) for less (most of them are quite a bit less attractive to my eye, though, by a long shot).


I have an old Buck 501 with script tang stamp and micarta scales (stating for date reference). It had seen a reasonable amount of use before I adopted it, sent it to the spa for a clean/lube/sharpening, and started using it. When I got it, no blade play in any direction, locked up solid as a vault. I have beat the absolute crap out of that thing over the past couple years, even using it for things I KNOW I should probably have chosen a more appropriate tool (I have a like new backup, just in case). Never even the slightest amount of play in any direction, at any point in time. Over thirty years old, several owners, a multitude of “hard” (for a knife this size) tasks, and not even a wiggle.

I am not advocating Buck, nor am I suggesting that the 501 is a “better” knife. If I thought it was, I would carry it instead. I am also not a drop point fan on small folding knives. I love the patterns GEC produces, and the materials used (with the exception of wishing they used stainless a little more often :rolleyes:). I stated my experience as an example that rock solid lock quality is possible, even probable, over a long period of time and use.

I just wonder what it is about GEC that makes it that much more difficult to build a solid Lockback with no wiggle, that holds up over years of use.

I also wonder why they ship out knives with blades that wiggle, in any direction. That would just drive me crazy. (Insert witty sarcasm :D)

I appreciate the materials comment, as I never considered that. I would not call myself educated enough to have an input on that, other than saying I could see how material selection could make a difference in build quality (concerning the quality of the lock, as we are currently discussing).
 
I'll be honest with ya, I've never gotten any bladeplay to develop in any of my slipjoints. Sodbusters, trappers, Barlow etc.
I use em for anything I'd use a modern for.
Every lock back I've ever had has had bladeplay though.
 
It's very difficult to avoid vertical blade play using a traditional lockback design. The machining has to be ridiculously accurate (In my world, it is called a "dead nuts tolerance" and any designer whose production design requires that tight a tolerance is taken out to the wood shed for a "teaching session".) To reliably get a traditional lockback with no vertical play, you pretty much have to hand adjust the lock of each knife. That is not feasible at the GEC price point in today's manufacturing world.

I know that Spyderco wrestled with this issue for quite a spell. They fixed it by departing from a true traditional lockback and changing the geometry of the lock engagement. The current Spyderco lockback design is not actually a traditional lockback for that reason.
 
This conversation is exactly why I phrased it as "lock play" versus "blade play". This is what Frank is talking about as well.

The blade does not have play, it is seated tightly against the spring, without having vertical or lateral play.

The only play is prior to the lock engaging. While this may be a trivial difference, it should be one specified if a knife is for sale.
I would not want a knife with blade play, but some slight lock play I can look beyond.
 
knarfeng said:
It's very difficult to avoid vertical blade play using a traditional lockback design. The machining has to be ridiculously accurate (In my world, it is called a "dead nuts tolerance" and any designer whose production design requires that tight a tolerance is taken out to the wood shed for a "teaching session".)
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I think you hit the nail on the head here, Frank. There's likely a range of tolerance for this type of manufacturing. I don't think a small amount of vertical play is detrimental to the use or safety feature of a lock back.
I checked a dozen or so that I have, Puma, Gerber, Camillus, and Case. I'd say about a third have a small amount of play. Honestly, I've used most of them and never even thought to check.
 
bloody_pawprint said:
Having finally found two patterns I can use one or the other of every day, I have a question for the more experienced GEC users. How “hard” do you use your knives, and how are they holding up over time? What types of tasks do you put them up against, and how do they fare?
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I do not hard use GECs because of these concerns. A Kershaw handles harder tasks at home and others in car/bag/office.
 
I’d love to have a 72 but the blade play issues are why I won’t get one till they fix the problem. Hence I bought a 73.
 
knarfeng said:
It's very difficult to avoid vertical blade play using a traditional lockback design. The machining has to be ridiculously accurate (In my world, it is called a "dead nuts tolerance" and any designer whose production design requires that tight a tolerance is taken out to the wood shed for a "teaching session".) To reliably get a traditional lockback with no vertical play, you pretty much have to hand adjust the lock of each knife. That is not feasible at the GEC price point in today's manufacturing world.

I know that Spyderco wrestled with this issue for quite a spell. They fixed it by departing from a true traditional lockback and changing the geometry of the lock engagement. The current Spyderco lockback design is not actually a traditional lockback for that reason.
Click to expand...
You got it spot on Frank. If they made them that tight it would be very difficult to depress
the release. Cold Steels American Lawman withthe triad lck had many people cmplaining
about difficulty closig the knife.
 
I have a 72 lockback that had a little vertical play when i got it. Zero side to side movment. Ive used it pretty hard, at one point it was my beater. Over time I became really fond of it and it slipped out of the dirty jobs knife role although im still not afraid to use it.
It still doesn't have any horizontal movement and I really don't think the vertical movment has gotten any worse. Maybe I just got lucky but pretty happy with my 72.
 
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