GEC #46 Whaler

[Signalprick]

First off, they were not an open order item - so dealers were only able to submit a "I would like to have" number. Most dealers got shorted, with the exception being those that ordered 2-3. Dealers wouldn't have all received all they would like to have even if there was no shortfall.

Secondly, the first batch I received, I looked at every one of them and saw nothing whatsoever that needed returning - nor have I heard anything negative from a customer. So, I don't doubt what you say about some dealer returning theirs - but I imagine the circumstances to be something out of the ordinary.



That has to be a dealer.. I would like to know which one it is...

hose56 on the auction site and his seller rating is less than stellar.

 

[flylock]

I really like the one I received. Its got good heavy pulls, like one would expect on this pattern and it snaps! opening and closing. the wood is pretty dark but has some really good grain pattern on the front especially. the only minor imperfection is a small gouge out of the wood on the back side, maybe a couple mm length and 1mm depth.

 

[Heirphoto]

Where does this leave us in the quality stakes I wonder. Do we all want to only own knives that could be museum pieces, or do we want to reduce the supply to the point where only perfect knives make the cut and the rest of us miss out on owning one? Some serious questions for us enthusiasts I think...

Good points Camillus, and for each of us it is different. I try to only buy knives to use so a few scuffs, etc... are not a deal breaker but that also still depends on price. I still expect a $100 knife to look and fit better than a $50 knife if both are USA made. If I were buying as a collector/investor I would want perfect for my money.

On a hard to get knife like a #15 or #77 Barlow, or the Whaler I would be happy to just have the knife at all over missing out because they were not perfect, I would either fix it up or let GEC give it a second try. Fit and finish has not seemed to bother Northwoods buyers though as long as they can land one.

That said my #77 Ironwood Barlow was as perfect as any knife could be as was my #81 Red Micarta and #78 Elderberry Jig Bone. Pretty much everything else was very good for the money. Had a few duds along the way and have only returned 3 knives out of maybe 50 over the years.

Case seems to do fine with reasonable quality for a reasonable price, but I would not buy one sight unseen. Queen may be a good example of what happens when quality falters and sometimes even when you try to recover the damage is done to your name. Now no one gets future Queens and many of those may have been happy with the quality are now out of luck.

 

[B.F.U]

Few more pics for folks interested in comparison, also I got a lot of hardwoods in the mail so figured I'd get a group shot. See my previous comment about my finish preference, but in short I feel like the polish would have suited this 46 quite nicely, I grabbed a shot next to my cocobolo Sunfish to illustrate. I carried a 78 today and felt thoroughly inadequate, can't wait now for the bone, such a great knife.

15, 78, 54, 36, 46

Desert Ironwood 46, Cocobolo 78

and with Ebony TC Ancient

and with the Cocobolo 36 Sunfish

What a group! Makes me think I need more wood covered knives. Especially that #36, what a great pattern!

My Ironwood Whaler came in the mail today.

Here it is with a #25 Barlow for size comparison.

And here it is in hand.

Now, let's not kid ourselves, these behemoths are impractical and a bit ridiculous, but I knew that when I ordered one, and still I wanted to experience the thing firsthand. There are, however, other things about this knife (that is to say, the particular knife that I received) that have left me a bit disappointed. Here's a small list:

There's a strange divot on the pile side of the main blade tang. It looks like a tool mark of some sort. I've never seen this on any other GEC I've owned, and haven't noticed it on any of there other #46's posted here so far.

There is a group of scratches in the Ironwood, just above the shield (you can also see this fairly clearly in the in-hand photo above).

Probably most disappointing, though, are the dozens of tiny scratches/marks on both sides of the main blade. These were difficult to photograph (I couldn't capture them in the sunlight outside, so I had to bring the knife inside and take a couple photos). Indoors, they're even more noticeable in person than in the photos. This is pretty bewildering to me, as I've never seen a GEC blade that looked like this. I don't even know what could have caused it, but it's not good.

(You also get a pretty good look at the divot on the tang in this photo.)

I'll also add that the factory sharpening job on this knife might be the worst I've seen from GEC, and that the satin bolsters and shield came with a few scratches on them, as well (although I have seen that before on GEC knives with that finish on the bolsters).

I was really excited to get my hands on one of these, but if (as some have suggested) these comically proportioned knives are produced as a way for cutlers to show off their skills a bit, I'm afraid GEC hasn't done a very good job of it on this one.

The hardness test divot wouldn't bother me, but those scratches on the blade and especially in the wood don't seem right.

You are exactly right. It is my understanding that every Whaler got rockwell tested after heat treat.

That's kind of cool! I'm sure it's an unusual blade to heat treat.

I'm very pleased with this knife. Crazy thin edge to the main. Amazing thwack snap of the pen. Mine has a Rockwell test punch too, I think it's a sweet addition of character.

I really like the IW on these and the satin bolsters.

Here's where it's been since Monday

I call this beauty and the beast.

My favorite thing about my #45 is how thin the cutting edge is on the main blade. Can't wait to see how it is on these.

Heard through the grape vine that at least one dealer sent most back due to cosmetic issues and another got far less than he ordered for the same reason. Wonder if GEC rushed these out.

Don't know the percentage, but this is correct. This did cause a shortage from the original estimates.

I'm sure it is a tough knife to make.

First off, they were not an open order item - so dealers were only able to submit a "I would like to have" number. Most dealers got shorted, with the exception being those that ordered 2-3. Dealers wouldn't have all received all they would like to have even if there was no shortfall.

Secondly, the first batch I received, I looked at every one of them and saw nothing whatsoever that needed returning - nor have I heard anything negative from a customer. So, I don't doubt what you say about some dealer returning theirs - but I imagine the circumstances to be something out of the ordinary.

That has to be a dealer.. I would like to know which one it is...

That's good to hear that yours didn't have any issues that warranted return.

I have a Muscle Bone on order from you and I'm really looking forward to it. I'm bummed that I had to send my (Pioneer) Muscle Bone #45 in to the factory right before these were finished.

I am just hoping now that I don't have to wait longer than till the next AMKC meeting for the Abalone #46

 

[rje58]

I don't think a knife has to be a "museum piece" to pass a reasonable and rudimentary QC before shipping out, particularly if it costs more than $75-$90 with a carbon steel blade and no particularly exotic scales.

I agree that some buyers are perhaps too picky, but when I pay a certain amount for a knife with no premium blade steel or exotic materials, I think it's fair to have reasonable expectations - not perfection, not museum quality - but at least pass a basic QC eye test for obvious issues. Would a 45-second inspection for each one before it's tubed be too much to ask?

I'm not being critical - the GECs I've purchased haven't had any major flaws - but some of the photos posted are pretty surprising to me.

Where does this leave us in the quality stakes I wonder. Do we all want to only own knives that could be museum pieces, or do we want to reduce the supply to the point where only perfect knives make the cut and the rest of us miss out on owning one? Some serious questions for us enthusiasts I think...

 

[Camillus]

I think we are all going to have different expectations for what a hand made knife would look like. But personally I am ok with the risk of scratches on the bolsters and blade and handles, IF its a choice between that and not having any knife because they have all been scrapped, or GEC shutting its doors.

I certainly don’t have enough knowledge to provide an opinion on this, but if we are talking about GEC making a different knife every few weeks or so, in increasingly high volumes and presumably, higher time pressures, different tooling and materials etc, and all hand made, where does our price vs quality position land?

If this pressure for perfection is causing the rejection of knives by dealers and customers, of knives that many would be happy just to be able to own, I fear something is going to bust, which would be a goose and golden egg situation for us all. Just look at the scenario where one of these rejects could probably still be on-sold for $200 - that is a fantastic situation for all of us enthusiasts, but it’s not a situation we should jeopardise by forcing dealers and the manufacturer to comply with unsustainable expectations of a particular volume of knives at a particular standard and price point.

I don’t have answers, only fears and worries

 

[Rookie82]

I must have missed it. What were the quantities made for the Ironwood and the Bone?

 

[rje58]

I don't understand why the choices are:

1. Pay $100 - more or less - for a knife with carbon steel blades, and not only be willing to accept obvious defects, but be happy about it, because it keeps the manufacturer in business

or

2. Expect good quality and decent QC, and put the manufacturer out of business!

Really? Honestly, I don't see how those are supposed to be realistic choices - much less the only choices.

But that's just my opinion, and I have frequently been wrong. I'm also confused as to why the absence of significant, obvious defects (not minor defects or minor manufacturing variances) would qualify something as "perfection" or a "museum piece." But I confuse easily.

I think we are all going to have different expectations for what a hand made knife would look like. But personally I am ok the risk of scratches on the bolsters and blade and handles IF its a choice between that and not having a knife or GEC shutting its doors.

I certainly don’t have enough knowledge to provide an opinion on this, but if we are talking about them making a different knife every few weeks or so, in increasingly high volumes and presumably, higher time pressures, different tooling and materials etc, and all hand made, where does our price vs quality position land?

If this pressure for perfection is causing the rejection of knives by dealers and customers that we would be happy just to be able to own, I fear something is going to bust, which would be a goose and golden egg situation for us all. Just look at the scenario where one of these rejects could probably be sold for $200 - that is a fantastic situation for all of us enthusiats, but it’s not a situation we should jeopardise by forcing dealers and the manufacturer to comply with unsustainable expectations.

 

[btb01]

For what it's worth, I'll say that I based my expectations (and criticism) of the Ironwood #46 I received on all of the other GEC knives I own or have previously owned. I have maybe 60 or 70 GEC knives now (Tidioute, Northfield and F&F), and I've had a dozen or so others that I've sold or given away, so I think I have a fairly good feel for the general quality of the product GEC puts out. I brought up the Rockwell test mark because I'd never seen that before, but it doesn't bother me; I was just curious what it was. The scratches on the bolster/shield are a small disappointment, but as I said in my earlier post, I've see that before, particularly on GEC's satin bolsters/shields. Not-so-great factory sharpening is fairly standard for GEC (though they've improved lately). The two things that bothered me most on my #46 are the scratches on the Ironwood -- they're easily noticeable, and I feel like GEC has marked knives as seconds for less -- and the scratches on the blade. I've never seen a blade from GEC that looked like that.

That said, I'm not returning my #46, nor do I plan on selling it. It's an interesting knife, there's no denying that, and I'm glad to have one. I just wish the level of finish was on par with what I've come to expect from GEC.

 

[Modoc ED]

hose56 on the auction site and his seller rating is less than stellar.

I checked it myself and that guy has Muscle Bone 46s for sale. He says the knife you see is the one you'll get so he must have them in stock.

So, I guess now GEC will ship to dealers and then some dealers will go straight to the auction site to sell them. GEC ought to put an end to that.

 

[bosh]

KSF has more Iron Wood Whalers up.... be quick!

 

[Signalprick]

I checked it myself and that guy has Muscle Bone 46s for sale. He says the knife you see is the one you'll get so he must have them in stock.

So, I guess now GEC will ship to dealers and then some dealers will go straight to the auction site to sell them. GEC ought to put an end to that.

Yea, I'm all for the collector taking advantage of what the market bears on the secondary but for a dealer to scab like that well, I would think if GEC continued to let their dealers pull that crap then it's possible those dealers will harm GEC's business and integrity seeing as they are official dealers.

 

[gunstockjack]

This reminds me of all the scalping of the 2017 BF knives; two dozen showed up on ebay before I had received or shipped a single knife, and I was sole distributor! Same situation now with the muscle bone whalers, in that I'm still waiting on mine to fulfill orders but other folks are selling theirs on ebay for huge profit. So, dealers should be limited to a modest profit of say, 25% for example, while scalpers/flippers can make 200% on the very same knife that the dealer just sold (or promised) the scalper? What's wrong with this picture????

By the way, GEC does not tell distributors how to sell their product; if they did maybe we could do away with the early reserve situation that only makes the flippers happy; what was wrong with waiting until product was in stock and you could choose your favorite from photos of the actual knife?

 

[Camillus]

If dealers are doing this then they could reintroduce serial numbers on each knife. That would locate the source of the knives.

they aren’t that hard to buy at retail - someone paying a flipper for a new release has only themselves to blame.

 

[bosh]

"if they did maybe we could do away with the early reserve situation that only makes the flippers happy; what was wrong with waiting until product was in stock and you could choose your favorite from photos of the actual knife?"

I'd rather see no early reserves. They really don't do anything to help anyone get the knife they want... first come first serve to the early reserve or first come to the "in stock now" at the store, what's the difference?
If the dealers start flooding the eBay second hand market... the prices would drop dramatically. It would also take much of the fun out of collecting and trading (eBay or otherwise) out of the hobby.

 

[Elgatodeacero]

I think the combination of wild west and early reserve works pretty good, after all, one cannot expect to be able to buy every knife when issued. It is what makes collecting fun and interesting.

I would like to see GEC and the 10-15 established dealers benefiting from their commitment and fair practices.

To avoid any shortage every dealer would have to do early reserve, and then GEC would have to build to the reserve number. I think GEC is happy to do it their way, and some prime knives leaking to EBay is just part of the scene.

GEC is not Buck and they don’t want to be. My opinion is that whatever distribution scheme works for the people running GEC works for me, since they seem to be at the top of the game and no one else is close. We should be careful telling them how to run their business, etc.

I do prefer to pick my exact knife when the cover is wood or stag. Most bone, and all micarta, looks similar enough for me to order sight unseen, jigged or not.

 

[Signalprick]

By the way, GEC does not tell distributors how to sell their product; if they did maybe we could do away with the early reserve situation that only makes the flippers happy; what was wrong with waiting until product was in stock and you could choose your favorite from photos of the actual knife?

My apologies if I offended in my previous post. I made the fatal assumption that GEC would in fact recommend or set to the dealers a certain MSRP if you will on selling their knives.

 

[Peregrin]

Hey guys, Please take the flipper discussions to Feedback. I don't have the time right now to collect the posts and start a new thread. If they continue I'll just close this thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[cigarrodog]

Just received from an authorized dealer web site.

 

[ArchiveMoto]