GEC #71 Bull Nose issue

[SadSappySucker]

" The knife had phenomenal fit and finish" - except where the blade fubar'd itself when you close it normally.

That is not phenomenal fit and finish. That's "pretty" with mechanical flaws. Like a pretty lady with a lot of baggage... the damage is there, you just won't see it at first.

I said “it had some of the best fit and finish I had seen on a GEC”. I said over all the knife was phenomenal.
EVERY GEC is going to have its flaw whether it be blade play, weak snap, nail breaker pull, blade rap, etc, and it’s up to each individual to determine which flaw is important to them.
As far as I know I’m far from a fan boy. I just realize that I’m buying a ~$100 knife, and with that price point comes imperfections. As far as I’m concerned blade rap is no big deal. I understand that others might despise the thought of a nicked edge and I get that.
If we were talking about lazy snap my tone might be completely different. That is one flaw that I deem unacceptable, but I understand that others can look right on past it.

 

[navaja]

I saw that same 71 on the exchange and almost scooped it up before you did but the one thing that held me back was that blade rap issue. I had a GEC 71 in green micarta from their most recent run that I absolutely enjoyed and I let it go to someone who 1.) really liked the knife and 2.) wanted to experience their first GEC. I had zero issues with that knife and it certainly didn't have the blade rap issue, so I know they can make the pattern just fine without incurring problems. When another comes up that doesn't appear to have any issues, I will be sure to try and scoop it up.

Though I certainly enjoy GEC knives, and am rather enthusiastic about the ones I have had the opportunity to handle/own, I certainly won't give them a pass just because I am partial to the brand. Since I know they can make a 71 with no blade rap, it seems it is just a matter of QC, which, in reality, can and does occur with just about every production knife company. To be fair though, GEC produces a fine knife at a competitive price point with superior overall F&F to any of the other production level alternatives.

I'd agree that they aren't producing Mona Lisa level works of art but I honestly think you have to be approaching the level of some, if not all, of the customs out there to make that comparison (plus, quality art is usually determined in the eye of the beholder...). GEC is a production level knife maker and not only does their pricing reflect that, but I think you will certainly see the occasional lemon slip past their QC as well.

Ultimately, GEC knives suit my sensibilities, come at a price I can afford with some regularity, and make for fantastic users, especially the patterns I like. I am certainly not in possession of any "cult-like" attitude towards them and will criticize when appropriate and give credit when it is due. Blade rap is certainly something worthy of criticism and hopefully is something that they can do better at avoiding in the future.

I couldn't agree with you more. I've owned enough 71s and GECs to know that the blade rap issue is more of an exception, not a rule. I was disappointed with the rap on my latest 71 purchase, and I'll certainly be disappointed by blade rap on any other gec I buy. It's because I hold gec to a higher standard as a production knife company that I find these issues disappointing. I understand that their knives won't be perfect every time and so do they, which is why they stand behind them with a warranty. I'll keep buying their knives, and expecting them to be dang near perfect.

 

[strokednbored]

I said “it had some of the best fit and finish I had seen on a GEC”. I said over all the knife was phenomenal.
EVERY GEC is going to have its flaw whether it be blade play, weak snap, nail breaker pull, blade rap, etc, and it’s up to each individual to determine which flaw is important to them.
As far as I know I’m far from a fan boy. I just realize that I’m buying a ~$100 knife, and with that price point comes imperfections. As far as I’m concerned blade rap is no big deal. I understand that others might despise the thought of a nicked edge and I get that.
If we were talking about lazy snap my tone might be completely different. That is one flaw that I deem unacceptable, but I understand that others can look right on past it.

Didn't mean to call you out or ruffle feathers. I just couldn't think of another way to reference what I was getting at. - My appologies sir.

I agree with you completely that, subjectively, we all see things different ways good/bad pretty/ugly etc. - which is good or there would only be 1 knife in 1 color and 1 size and we'd all already have it.

My sticking point is function, not the form. That is always my first step in determining "fit and finish". I expect any reputable knife maker to make a well functioning knife (the "fit" part)... then find the one with the form that I want.

To me, the "fit" is not correct on these - either the kick was cut down too much, or the blade was slightly oversized and the variation within the process was not able to be controlled with the available space (tolerances).

So, to me - the "finish" is still very nice, but the "fit" was not.

Is it the end of the world? Nope.
Fixable? - Yessir.
Should it happen on a $60 knife - I have to say that I would expect it not to.

Either way, She's sharp now...

Pro Tip of the day from an idiot (me) for anybody that reads this in the future:

If you start to grind out a blade ding caused by blade rap, don't take it the whole way down to the strops before you check to see if you actually have clearance when closing the knife... It may still make contact (just previously resting on the blade) and you may need to take more material away... 2nd times the charm right?

 

[knifeswapper]

I really don't mean to come off as judgy or tryin to pick a fight...

And yet you jump right in by doing what seems like both - quoting previous responses and the error in them.

I can get over centering issues or round tips (case) or gaps in bolsters and back spacers because it doesn't effect the function of a knife...

All permanent issues compared to a very temporary one that gives you heartburn. But I have a box of culls that you would have a heyday in - not a function issue in the lot.

In a perfect world, every knife would be perfect - but I haven't found the perfect knife yet. But if a knife has to have a problem that we are going to put under the microscope - give me a tiny ding in a blade over any that you have mentioned all day long. First off - it does not actually affect function; unless you are splitting hairs. Secondly as you observed - it is easily corrected when you put your edge on the knife anyway. I don't know what the costs would be for the knife if we asked GEC to sit and fine tune it for 30 minutes to insure every tiny issue is fully resolved on every knife. But I do know that dealers sold it for @$54 (shipped); and they made money, as did the factory - so the original cost to produce was probably in the low $30's somewhere. If I have to pay $54 for a ding or $80 for non-ding - give me the ding because I am sharpening the knife to my liking immediately anyway. Which actually seems like the same decision you made before you purchased it. So, every knife from $20 to $2000, comes with an actual "value" as compared to "cost". If V <= C in your own mind - you don't buy it. The market will take care of the rest.

You are definitely free to have your opinions - but they do not invalidate everyone else's. I think we all agree that all other things being equal, no rap is better than rap. But the actual availability of the Bullnose speaks a little bit to the actual consumer opinion of it as a whole.

 

[sjhong]

The #71 is my 1st slip joint (now I also own a #74 Mustang), and all my other knives are modern locking folders. Coming from that "world", I thought that the blade rap would bother me like crazy but, after a few days carrying and using the knife, it doesn't.

I have sharpened the #71 twice: once when I got it, and a second time when I noticed the nick. I don't think I took nearly enough material for the rap problem to disappear. It will probably take years of sharpening for the problem to go away, more due to my usage pattern than the gravity of the problem. I live in a city and work in an office, so my opportunities to use a knife are limited. Plus, I carry other knives as well.

I simply stopped letting the blade go when I close the knife. Now I hold the blade almost until the end, as to avoid the overtravel. I haven't had a nick since, and the extra effort doesn't bother me. I love the look and feel of the knife, and it opened the doors to a whole another universe of knives I can own and use. And it is one of my most inexpensive knives.

I see traditional knives differently than modern ones. A similar problem on my $700 Rockstead would cause me to send it back immediately for warranty repair. Same with my $200 ZT or my other more expensive knives. But it's not only a monetary issue. I'd also send my Delica 4 back for repair if it had blade rap.

I don't know how to explain exactly, but I expect different things from these slip joints.

With my modern knives, I want precision and tight tolerances. I want the best materials, the most expensive super steels. I want my blades to be sharp and to stay that way for a long time.

From my two slip joints, what I want the most is character. 1095? Boy, I never ever imagined owning a folder in 1095. 440C? Blasphemy! But it doesn't matter. I love these knives because what they lack in precision and super materials, they more than compensate with character, look, and feel.

I love opening using these knives. The two-hand opening, the half stop... they give me joy, for whatever reason.

 

[Jsega51]

knifeswapper , excellent response! As you said, it shouldn’t be a surprise that every single knife out there has some sort of flaw, inconsistency, anomaly, or whatever you want to call it. No knife is perfect, production or custom, and if the blade hits the backspring slightly, it’s an issue that easily remedied.

The analogy of a pretty woman with baggage mentioned earlier is off base. A slight roll in an otherwise “perfect” knife can be made to disappear like it never happened in the first place. That pretty woman’s baggage will always follow, you can’t erase someone’s past.

If the knife is a user, there shouldn’t be much worry because the “issue” will go away fairly quickly through normal use and sharpening. If the knife is just a collector piece, like so many here treat their precious GEC’s, don’t let them slam! You’re not using them anyhow so why create an issue.

For anyone who simply can’t bear to look at a little roll in the edge in a production knife, don’t ever buy a custom, because it happens there also. My most expensive custom slipjoint does it on the main blade ever so slightly (other customs that I have will do it as well). Try telling that maker that he didn’t put an inordinate amout of time perfecting the fit and finish and the traditional knife community will surely shun you lol.

 

[strokednbored]

And yet you jump right in by doing what seems like both - quoting previous responses and the error in them.



All permanent issues compared to a very temporary one that gives you heartburn. But I have a box of culls that you would have a heyday in - not a function issue in the lot.

In a perfect world, every knife would be perfect - but I haven't found the perfect knife yet. But if a knife has to have a problem that we are going to put under the microscope - give me a tiny ding in a blade over any that you have mentioned all day long. First off - it does not actually affect function; unless you are splitting hairs. Secondly as you observed - it is easily corrected when you put your edge on the knife anyway. I don't know what the costs would be for the knife if we asked GEC to sit and fine tune it for 30 minutes to insure every tiny issue is fully resolved on every knife. But I do know that dealers sold it for @$54 (shipped); and they made money, as did the factory - so the original cost to produce was probably in the low $30's somewhere. If I have to pay $54 for a ding or $80 for non-ding - give me the ding because I am sharpening the knife to my liking immediately anyway. Which actually seems like the same decision you made before you purchased it. So, every knife from $20 to $2000, comes with an actual "value" as compared to "cost". If V <= C in your own mind - you don't buy it. The market will take care of the rest.

You are definitely free to have your opinions - but they do not invalidate everyone else's. I think we all agree that all other things being equal, no rap is better than rap. But the actual availability of the Bullnose speaks a little bit to the actual consumer opinion of it as a whole.

You are very correct, sir.
I woke up this morning and read through what I posted last night and realized it really sounded like I was trying to take a stand at the cost of others.

My apologies to the board.

Happy thanksgiving everyone... I'll be giving thanks for (among other things) the fact that more people here aren't as quick to jump into saying things without thinking them through as I am from time to time.

 

[LastRodeo]

knifeswapper , excellent response! As you said, it shouldn’t be a surprise that every single knife out there has some sort of flaw, inconsistency, anomaly, or whatever you want to call it. No knife is perfect, production or custom, and if the blade hits the backspring slightly, it’s an issue that easily remedied.

The analogy of a pretty woman with baggage mentioned earlier is off base. A slight roll in an otherwise “perfect” knife can be made to disappear like it never happened in the first place. That pretty woman’s baggage will always follow, you can’t erase someone’s past.

If the knife is a user, there shouldn’t be much worry because the “issue” will go away fairly quickly through normal use and sharpening. If the knife is just a collector piece, like so many here treat their precious GEC’s, don’t let them slam! You’re not using them anyhow so why create an issue.

For anyone who simply can’t bear to look at a little roll in the edge in a production knife, don’t ever buy a custom, because it happens there also. My most expensive custom slipjoint does it on the main blade ever so slightly (other customs that I have will do it as well). Try telling that maker that he didn’t put an inordinate amout of time perfecting the fit and finish and the traditional knife community will surely shun you lol.

Well said Jake. I have seen custom knives from very respected makers where the blade hit the backspring and another that had blade play.

If anyone wants a new custom knife and doesn't mind blade play, hit me up.

 

[morati]

Gentlemen, don't mean to hijack this thread but since it is the most recent with regards to the GEC #71 I was wondering if one of you would mind doing me a small favor? I have a line on a local #71 but before I make the purchase could someone tell me the thickness of the blade directly behind the secondary bevel? Looking to buy only if its thin enough for my tastes as a slicer.

 

[NewBlades16]

And yet you jump right in by doing what seems like both - quoting previous responses and the error in them.



All permanent issues compared to a very temporary one that gives you heartburn. But I have a box of culls that you would have a heyday in - not a function issue in the lot.

In a perfect world, every knife would be perfect - but I haven't found the perfect knife yet. But if a knife has to have a problem that we are going to put under the microscope - give me a tiny ding in a blade over any that you have mentioned all day long. First off - it does not actually affect function; unless you are splitting hairs. Secondly as you observed - it is easily corrected when you put your edge on the knife anyway. I don't know what the costs would be for the knife if we asked GEC to sit and fine tune it for 30 minutes to insure every tiny issue is fully resolved on every knife. But I do know that dealers sold it for @$54 (shipped); and they made money, as did the factory - so the original cost to produce was probably in the low $30's somewhere. If I have to pay $54 for a ding or $80 for non-ding - give me the ding because I am sharpening the knife to my liking immediately anyway. Which actually seems like the same decision you made before you purchased it. So, every knife from $20 to $2000, comes with an actual "value" as compared to "cost". If V <= C in your own mind - you don't buy it. The market will take care of the rest.

You are definitely free to have your opinions - but they do not invalidate everyone else's. I think we all agree that all other things being equal, no rap is better than rap. But the actual availability of the Bullnose speaks a little bit to the actual consumer opinion of it as a whole.

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