GEC: Rhyme or Reason...

gaj999 said:
Dunno about that. Scarcity drives people nuts. If you could buy 15s and 77s off the shelf whenever you wanted, much of the luster would be lost.
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right, thats why I said Bill knows what he is doing, and that there arent year long 15 runs or 77s or 48s.
 
mrknife said:
right, thats why I said Bill knows what he is doing, and that there arent year long 15 runs or 77s or 48s.
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OK, I got it. Some days I can read. I know lots of people enjoy the lolly scramble, the thrill and agony and all that, and it's good for GEC sales, but it kind of kills my buzz ... I stay home on Black Friday, too.
 
traumkommode said:
^^^ Echo Jeff. Sometimes there's a release where the blade shape or handle slabs just aren't as desirable, like the #38 Special. If that knife had the "full" clip from the Grinling whittler, those would be long gone. Sometimes it's the pulls, too - there are a lot of 66s left, but the most popular GECs are 1 and 2 blade knives, and the last 66 run got a lot of flack about light pulls. Then there are folks who don't like having a 3rd blade they don't use. Still some of those stockmans hanging around dealers. The #15 is one of the most popular patterns ever, but the ones with the bail and chain are still available because of that bail and chain. Bullnoses were in high demand when there wasn't enough supply, but then there were runs several years in a row with basically the same handle slabs, so not much compelling collectors other than the last digit of the tang stamp/tube label.
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Personally I'm kinda glad there are still some #38 out there, it's a great pattern and I want a few more.



I think some of it is there are fans of a pattern that have them, some that want them, and others that want to know what all the fuss is about. If youre truly a knife lover you know no matter what anyone says youve got to experience it yourself before you truly know if it works for you or works for someone else and not you.
I think Barlows are that way. Is it a great pattern? Sure. But there are a lot of great patterns. But people bring up barlows so much that come time to buy one you have a bunch of first timers that want to see what its all about.
The #93 is like that too I'm sure. Lot of people wanted to see wgat all the fuss is. Some liked them, some wondered why once they had it and sold them soon after or put them in a drawer of things.

Can you really nail it down? Probably not to as few factors as we'd like.
Good thing is it keeps the mfgs and dealers in business and we all like that.
 
I think looking at Case and GEC shows a lot of the reason that GEC is so popular with traditional knife enthusiasts. Case likes to brag about being the most collected pocket knife, but frankly, other than different scales and the rare old pattern brought back for a short run, there's not a lot of originality in their offerings. Sadly they don't offer a lot of the really old patterns they made 100+ years ago. It took bringing Tony Bose in to add some of that missing element to the line up, and while those are nice knives (I own a few) I really don't think they're worth the price. GEC on the other hand does seem to care about offering the old patterns, and they bring some new stuff out too. Often they are the first people to make a pattern in decades. The 13 series 2011 BF knife (one of my favorite patterns) was the first run since the 1980's offering by Fight'n Rooster, and very scarce by other makers, yet it's a catalog offering in the early 1900's by (at least) six major manufacturers. Case could easily make a run of that pattern, but hasn't. Barlow's are another case in point (pun intended); GEC offerings sold out, and five years after they started selling Case finally got around to bring their pattern out for a short run.

As I see it, it's not pattern so much as quantity and quality. Case has made hundreds of thousands of knives, very few in the past decade that command a premium on the secondary market, and lot's that can be had at a fractions of suggested retail. GEC makes much smaller numbers of knives and some can sometimes be had at a discount when they first hit the shelves, but try finding a good one at any price 3-4 years later. Exclusivity adds value; that's a major marketing law. It helps when you have superior quality control and good materials.

But still, without a fan base both of these companies would probably be struggling. There's a finite market for pocketknives, and I truly believe it's growing smaller.
 
eisman said:
I think looking at Case and GEC shows a lot of the reason that GEC is so popular with traditional knife enthusiasts. Case likes to brag about being the most collected pocket knife, but frankly, other than different scales and the rare old pattern brought back for a short run, there's not a lot of originality in their offerings. Sadly they don't offer a lot of the really old patterns they made 100+ years ago. It took bringing Tony Bose in to add some of that missing element to the line up, and while those are nice knives (I own a few) I really don't think they're worth the price. GEC on the other hand does seem to care about offering the old patterns, and they bring some new stuff out too. Often they are the first people to make a pattern in decades. The 13 series 2011 BF knife (one of my favorite patterns) was the first run since the 1980's offering by Fight'n Rooster, and very scarce by other makers, yet it's a catalog offering in the early 1900's by (at least) six major manufacturers. Case could easily make a run of that pattern, but hasn't. Barlow's are another case in point (pun intended); GEC offerings sold out, and five years after they started selling Case finally got around to bring their pattern out for a short run.

As I see it, it's not pattern so much as quantity and quality. Case has made hundreds of thousands of knives, very few in the past decade that command a premium on the secondary market, and lot's that can be had at a fractions of suggested retail. GEC makes much smaller numbers of knives and some can sometimes be had at a discount when they first hit the shelves, but try finding a good one at any price 3-4 years later. Exclusivity adds value; that's a major marketing law. It helps when you have superior quality control and good materials.

But still, without a fan base both of these companies would probably be struggling. There's a finite market for pocketknives, and I truly believe it's growing smaller.
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I would add that I see the market for quality slip joints and quality traditionals growing. What sets GEC apart for me are two things: hand made quality and diversity of traditional patterns. I am a very modest collector in that I have a few knives that I like and like to use, enough to vary what I carry. My only non-GEC knives are my old SAK bought on board ship in 1962, and my old Buck 112 bought in the early 1970s.
 
eisman said:
I think looking at Case and GEC shows a lot of the reason that GEC is so popular with traditional knife enthusiasts. Case likes to brag about being the most collected pocket knife, but frankly, other than different scales and the rare old pattern brought back for a short run, there's not a lot of originality in their offerings. Sadly they don't offer a lot of the really old patterns they made 100+ years ago. It took bringing Tony Bose in to add some of that missing element to the line up, and while those are nice knives (I own a few) I really don't think they're worth the price. GEC on the other hand does seem to care about offering the old patterns, and they bring some new stuff out too. Often they are the first people to make a pattern in decades. The 13 series 2011 BF knife (one of my favorite patterns) was the first run since the 1980's offering by Fight'n Rooster, and very scarce by other makers, yet it's a catalog offering in the early 1900's by (at least) six major manufacturers. Case could easily make a run of that pattern, but hasn't. Barlow's are another case in point (pun intended); GEC offerings sold out, and five years after they started selling Case finally got around to bring their pattern out for a short run.

As I see it, it's not pattern so much as quantity and quality. Case has made hundreds of thousands of knives, very few in the past decade that command a premium on the secondary market, and lot's that can be had at a fractions of suggested retail. GEC makes much smaller numbers of knives and some can sometimes be had at a discount when they first hit the shelves, but try finding a good one at any price 3-4 years later. Exclusivity adds value; that's a major marketing law. It helps when you have superior quality control and good materials.

But still, without a fan base both of these companies would probably be struggling. There's a finite market for pocketknives, and I truly believe it's growing smaller.
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Why do you think there is a shrinking finite market for pocket knives? I am not questioning your opinion, you sound very knowledgeable, i just like reading about other peoples opinions, i find it very interesting and is the only way we can learn. I do not know about these sorts of matters,but like to listen. My dad told me, "If you want to learn, listen to people and take note"
 
cudgee said:
Why do you think there is a shrinking finite market for pocket knives?
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Mainly because social changes. When I was young every boy, and a lot of the girls, carried a pocket knife. We'd play games and whittle, set traps, cut ourselves; and basically grew up using and carrying one. Kids today don't do that. And nobody collects stuff they don't like, know, or use. Arguably the largest market for these knives is the USA, certainly we have the disposable income to collect more stuff than we need or use. As the generations pass there will be a smaller and smaller market. I don't see that changing without a major adjustment in socially acceptable behavior.
 
I agree with you on all counts. I can still remember being given my first knife in the sixties, i treasured it like nobody's business. There is no doubt the USA is the largest market, and that sort of makes me think that the good knives around today will be come more collectable in to the future. As they get lost, worn out, handed down to generations that just ditch them they will become rarer and collectors, although maybe small in number will pay a premium. I am talking about good knives, i look at he value of some of the cards and toys i had as a kid that are really collectable know, i just lost them or wrecked them playing with them. People will collect anything, especially today's generation if they see a dollar in it. Any way who knows, but thanks for your input and reply,very interesting reading. Have a good week end.
 
Meakfucious say:
A good knife will age well and always be useful. Even the best and latest computer game will lose favour with age....errm except to really supersonic collector nerds.
 
eisman said:
Mainly because social changes. When I was young every boy, and a lot of the girls, carried a pocket knife. We'd play games and whittle, set traps, cut ourselves; and basically grew up using and carrying one. Kids today don't do that. And nobody collects stuff they don't like, know, or use. Arguably the largest market for these knives is the USA, certainly we have the disposable income to collect more stuff than we need or use. As the generations pass there will be a smaller and smaller market. I don't see that changing without a major adjustment in socially acceptable behavior.
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kids today are not allowed to celebrate 'Halloween" (it's now black & orange day in our grade school. Halloween is too offensive) or even carry scissors, let alone a knife. Heck..kids are not even allowed to take peanut butter or chocolate to school...lest some child have an allergy.

Add to this the fact that you can no longer travel with a knife. It's crushing the pocketknife tradition. Ask Wenger Knives.
 
Ron Sabbagh said:
Add to this the fact that you can no longer travel with a knife.
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This troubles me more than anything else. Sometimes you can guess where your blade will get confiscated, like an airport or a government building. But if you lose concentration and come up to the wrong venue without access to your car, too bad.

Back to GEC, I like and have many. I've evolved out of the need to have the latest issue, and it has been several years since my last purchase.
 
I too have evolved passed the "gotta have it" stage. I know what I like now when it comes to GEC knives, 3-1/2" to 3-3/4" knives with bone or wood handles. I'm always on the lookout for those "bargains" knives that people let go at a reasonable price. I will also buy future regular run knives that strike my fancy. I'm beyond the stage of paying a premium for a knife, that includes SFOs and secondary markups.

However, I will try to acquire a NF Barlow. If I can get one of those at retail, or close to it, I will add it to my small collection. I don't have a GEC Barlow, so that's one exception I'm willing to make.
 
We have "Halloween" over here, but it is a modern thing, has no history here, it is all about kids just trying to get free lollies. But that is the culture now, Everyone wants something for nothing. In my humble opinion.
 
eisman said:
Mainly because social changes. When I was young every boy, and a lot of the girls, carried a pocket knife. We'd play games and whittle, set traps, cut ourselves; and basically grew up using and carrying one. Kids today don't do that. And nobody collects stuff they don't like, know, or use. Arguably the largest market for these knives is the USA, certainly we have the disposable income to collect more stuff than we need or use. As the generations pass there will be a smaller and smaller market. I don't see that changing without a major adjustment in socially acceptable behavior.
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Tend to agree, in Europe where I live it's perhaps even more marked. When I was at school most of us had a knife of some kind, including sheath knives especially on Nature Day walks when we'd go out in the countryside to learn about plants, animals, birds trees etc. I loved those days, some kids were bored of course but not I and we got exercise. Now knives are regarded as redundant or 'weapons' (paradox being that gang-culture has increased stabbing exponentially, but...) and knife use and collecting will be more and more niche (if it's not prohibited)

GEC and CASE offer this niche for us but as you say it's diminishing. One good thing, the value of these knives could really take a hammering suddenly and I wouldn't care a bit, the less prized they are by must haves or flippers then the better for the real enthusiast:D

GEC has achieved wonders in quality and visibility but it still has yet to master some patterns, the smaller ones are not as proportional as CASE, Queen or other makes mostly defunct. They come across as toy like and I have a smaller hand! I'm think of the 06, 18, 14 in particular. The 25 I've actually gone off, it's too burly and short (bloated :D)
 
Will Power said:
GEC has achieved wonders in quality and visibility but it still has yet to master some patterns, the smaller ones are not as proportional as CASE, Queen or other makes mostly defunct. They come across as toy like and I have a smaller hand! I'm think of the 06, 18, 14 in particular. The 25 I've actually gone off, it's too burly and short (bloated :D)
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Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I
Like and have the 06 Pemberton, two of them and a nice 25 with micarta covers. Two of my favorites.
 
cudgee said:
We have "Halloween" over here, but it is a modern thing, has no history here, it is all about kids just trying to get free lollies. But that is the culture now, Everyone wants something for nothing. In my humble opinion.
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Dont forget the supermarket frenzy... huge pumpkins that we dont normally see(because they are pig food) 25 bux.....a f$%$##$$ing kilo.
I used to dress as frankenstein ,stomp to the door and greet the now scared out of their wits trick r treaters...and help myself to their lolly bags....great fun....Yeah yeah we gave lollies out too...
 
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