GEC vs "golden age" slipjoints

TheChunk91

TheChunk91

Joined
Aug 15, 2013
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The general consensus that I have seen is that the golden age of american pocket knives was from around late 1800's to around the beginning of ww2. Can anyone tell me how the knives made during this period compare to what gec puts out today, better, worse or equal? Was that kind of superb quality more common than anything else?
 
IMO GEC is right up there. Quality control is amazing, fit and finish is better than some of the old brands. I can say without a doubt that the farmers jacks are as good as or better made than most of the old ones i have.
I think they are very very lucky to have Charlie aboard as many of his SFOs are their biggest sellers.

Best regards

Robin
 
Hard to say as most of the 'golden age' has long since rusted away and what remains is either very used antique exhibit stuff or the highly rare pristine unused examples - another type of 'exhibit'. Additional factor could be the fog of nostalgia obscuring things. Knives were used a lot more in the past and users might not have had the fussy eye of the enthusiast or collector of today for faults and roughness. There were many different companies and many varying grades of construction quality, so not all old gear was so wonderful. However, there clearly were certain gems amongst the mass of knife brands.

I agree with Robin, GEC has implemented high standards of finish and a serious feel to the knife both as genuine user and showcase exhibit. They have introduced many patterns in nine years which have otherwise been 'extinct' or very hard to come by and this is an attempt to emulate the rich variety of old cutlery. In this they succeed. So I would feel their ambition to pay homage to the past by producing high quality pocket-knives is a way of making 'golden age' style knives available to the contemporary market. It's making a future now, a golden age today. If GEC didn't exist, my collection of knives would be smaller and far less interesting. I might have more money though...but so what?:D
 
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I have handled a lot of barely used Winchester, Remington, Case knives from 70-100 years ago. And even though we use them as a measuring stick, they were tools. And daylight in the backsprings, gaps between bone/bolster, etc. were very common - much more so than is permitted by knife nuts (me included) today.
 
Uh. Oh. Here we go again. :yawn: ;) :D

Here's a link to the discussion from a couple months ago...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...0-1900-s-did-they-expect-Fit-amp-Finish-we-do

GEC makes some great knives. But it is possible to enjoy collecting GEC knives without putting down every other knife from every other time in history! :eek: I have some Schrade Old Timer (USA) knives that have fantastic fit and finish and the same 1095 blade steel. They didn't have fancy handle materials but they were about 1/4 the cost of a GEC knife. I've owned some Case knives (sowbelly and swayback jack) that also had fantastic fit and finish.... and the Case/Bose knives have bushings and parts that are EDM wire cut (not punched out). AND there are some fantastic antique knives... a lot of fakes, reworks, kentucky minted, and junkers too... but there are some excellent oldies.

I think generalizations aren't really helpful. There were many manufacturers producing knives. Many of these manufacturers made both expensive and inexpensive knives.

I think its unfortunate that so many GEC fans don't have a lot of experience with the old knives. Not only are there some excellent oldies but it would also give you a greater appreciation for the GEC knives. After all, GEC is attemping to "recreat[e] the old knife patterns as close to authentic as has been seen in 75 years."

My advice is to enjoy them ALL!

Show me where da gaps at. ;) :p

supratentorial said:


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A few nice modern examples from other manufacturers...







 
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Comparing GEC to American pre WW2 knife production is apples to oranges. Sure, GEC makes really good knives, most are the equal of older brands such as Remington or Camillus. However, when you consider production methods, it puts a whole new light on it. The best Remington knives were made pre WW2. Knife production was said to be near 10,000 a day with some 700 or so different patterns. How many knives has GEC made to date? Maybe not even that many. Still, making knives at the rate of 10,000 a day and keeping quality at that level is amazing even by todays standards. GEC is better compared to what you would have seen in Sheffield back in the day- relatively small numbers of more or less hand made knives built to a high standard of quality.
 
Anyone know when stamping out parts and stock removal replaced forging? I also posted the same question in Levine's forum.
 
supratentorial said:
Anyone know when stamping out parts and stock removal replaced forging? I also posted the same question in Levine's forum.
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"stamping out" parts would have been quite a while ago. I believe hammer presses were used to make blades starting in the late 1800's ... at least to an almost finished state.
I think stock removal (waterstone/grinding wheels) were used before the presses came into use, and after, at least for the final edge grinds.
 
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I own several Schrade OT knives (34, 194, 3. 98, ) as well as a few Uncle Henry's with fit & finish that would rival anything made by GEC, and all were made in the 1990's and cost less than $20 each.
 
I actually don't have anything to say about the comparison of older knives to GEC. My main point was simply that we have a large portion of our knife nut brothers that only go by the "stories" or cherry-picked pictures of older knives. They were outstanding, and most were wore out without giving a moments problem. But we have put these older makers on a pedestal. Our U.S. traditional makers have the same flesh and blood making knives on the same equipment they were 80 years ago. Compare them to what you would expect from the makers that produced them and for the value they are at the price you paid. Don't get bogged down comparing one to another or asking a forum full of folks that generally already have their own opinion well in place.

But specifically to the OP's question. There were economy brands then, just as there are today. You don't hear a ton out of them, just like your grandkids probably won't hear you bragging about the economy knives made today. No brand is immune to problems, either localized or in general. And I can take a few minutes and grab some near perfect 80 year old knives and some 80 year knives from the same makers that are well below perfection. If I were looking in my personal collection they would lean more toward the better specimens, as most of us "upgrade" our collections as we go. As a dealer, I see a lot of knives and I see them in their glory and with their misfits.
 
NMpops said:
I own several Schrade OT knives (34, 194, 3. 98, ) as well as a few Uncle Henry's with fit & finish that would rival anything made by GEC, and all were made in the 1990's and cost less than $20 each.
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We should have all of today's makers follow Schrade's business plan! I also bought many Case, Case Classics, Black Box Winchesters, etc. in the $30's in the 1990's - wish we could go back in time....
 
I think the old stuff did the small things better. Like jigging bone, properly hafting stag covers, and keeping swedges crisp during polishing.
 
A loaded question for sure and one that will not have one definitive answer. IMO, the answer lies more in the pattern the knife was built in rather than the time period it was built. While GEC builds a fine knife overall, the area they fall far short of the best cutlery companies of the Golden Age is in the area of finesse. What I am referring to is the small pen knives, whittlers, lobsters and other patterns that you just marvel at the grinds and finish work, not to mention the precision and smoothness of action and wonder what it took to produce such knives on such a grand scale. These are the knives I have been waiting for GEC to build. Their best to date in these regards is the #38 whittler. Their pens have fallen a little short, just take a look at the following pics showing a #68 White Owl and #09 Esquire alongside an old Keen Kutter and Remington pen. Absolutely no contest in terms of precision.

image_zpsqacab0xv.jpeg

image_zps9w8l4qon.jpeg
 
knifeswapper said:
...Don't get bogged down comparing one to another or asking a forum full of folks that generally already have their own opinion well in place.
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My impression is that most of the folks post on the forum are GEC fans and that fans of other makers and old knives are under represented. Vintage knife collectors are certainly under represented. I'm a fan of GEC knives and I highly recommend them. And I'd much rather talk about particular patterns than defend other knife manufacturers. But I think there are a lot of folks (like the OP) that don't have much experience with vintage knives or knives from other makers. Some folks don't even know pattern names except for those coined by GEC. I'd highly recommend they pick up some knife books and some old knives. There are a lot of great knives from a lot of different makers, including some that you listed in the quote below.

knifeswapper said:
We should have all of today's makers follow Schrade's business plan! I also bought many Case, Case Classics, Black Box Winchesters, etc. in the $30's in the 1990's - wish we could go back in time....
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I'm not sure if the first part is a joke or not. No smilies? Hopefully today's makers won't also go out of business but Schrade made some great knives.
 
afishhunter said:
"stamping out" parts would have been quite a while ago. I believe hammer presses were used to make blades starting in the late 1800's ... at least to an almost finished state.
I think stock removal (waterstone/grinding wheels) were used before the presses came into use, and after, at least for the final edge grinds.
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Blade's Guide has some discussion that indirectly suggests a similar time frame.
 
supratentorial said:
My impression is that most of the folks post on the forum are GEC fans and that fans of other makers and old knives are under represented. Vintage knife collectors are certainly under represented. I'm a fan of GEC knives and I highly recommend them. And I'd much rather talk about particular patterns than defend other knife manufacturers. But I think there are a lot of folks (like the OP) that don't have much experience with vintage knives or knives from other makers. Some folks don't even know pattern names except for those coined by GEC. I'd highly recommend they pick up some knife books and some old knives. There are a lot of great knives from a lot of different makers, including some that you listed in the quote below.



I'm not sure if the first part is a joke or not. No smilies? Hopefully today's makers won't also go out of business but Schrade made some great knives.
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Sometimes my son comes home telling me something is the fact because his buddy or teacher told him so. My response (and he gets sick of it) is always that he should take all opinions into consideration - but to make his own mind up or do his own investigation. If our new knife nuts are complacent enough to take others opinions as their opinions we are losing the great impact they can have going forward. My point is that they should make up their own mind. Books are great, also spend a day at a gun/knife show just examining what is out there. Buy some knives and take them apart, and possibly try to put them back together so you actually understand the mechanics. Forums are made for questions to be asked and answered; but I would be saddened if we took every opinion stated here as our own. I agree that the folks that were knife nuts in the 1960's are under represented. But there is simply very little interest in older knives these days. Where knife folks gather there may be some that say they focus on old (pre-1970) knives - but this seems like a very small percentage of conversations. Maybe their first GEC, Queen, Case, Canal Street knife will cause them to expand into the vintage knives and possibly vice versa.

When Schrade was making tons of knives and Walmart was carrying them, it was very hard to find anyone that was serious about them as anything other than a beater. Once they went broke, all of a sudden they became this elite maker that was put on a pedestal. Yes, they had some good knives. Yes, they made some knives that the blades crossed each other when you tried to close them.
 
knifeswapper said:
... he should take all opinions into consideration - but to make his own mind up or do his own investigation. ... Books are great, also spend a day at a gun/knife show just examining what is out there. Buy some knives and take them apart, and possibly try to put them back together so you actually understand the mechanics.
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I think that's good advice.

knifeswapper said:
I agree that the folks that were knife nuts in the 1960's are under represented. But there is simply very little interest in older knives these days.
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I wasn't born yet. ;)

knifeswapper said:
Maybe their first GEC, Queen, Case, Canal Street knife will cause them to expand into the vintage knives and possibly vice versa.
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I hope that's the case.

I only buy new knives to use, not to collect. But the trend does make me wonder if people will also lose interest in the carefully collected and meticulously preserved GEC knives when those knives are old enough to be vintage.
 
blademan 13 nailed it...production knives of today lack the finesse of yesteryear, especially the pen knives and more complex patterns. Sheffield produced some exceptionally fine knives.
 
Taking something that is inherently subjective and trying to make it objective is always a tough enterprise. Other than saying something like "GEC doesn't do such-and-such style jigging that is represented on my old Schrade," we drift into a realm of assuming an idea like "better" is quantifiable. We then run the risk of taking it personally if someone approaches the hobby differently from ourselves.
 
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