GECs don't sharpen for me...

[SubSpace]

I value the expertise on this board. I'm still learning to sharpen my knives, and do better on some than others. I use the Spyderco Sharpmaker and can get any Victorinox or Case knife I own to cleanly cut phonebook paper. I've never been able to shave with my pocket knife and have tried the arm hair trick and have always failed. Phone book paper seems to be good enough for what I ask of a pocket knife in every day life.

My problem comes in with GEC. I own 3 GEC knives, only one of which came sharp from the factory (able to slice phonebook paper is my definition of sharp). My latest, a bullet end jack, has a perfectly sharp main blade but the pen blade will not open my mail without tearing.

I have been working with it on the sharpmaker and it is just not getting any better. I have done the sharpie trick, and my technique is removing the marker just fine. I've watched youtube videos, done searches on this and other forums--I'm just getting really frustrated. The pen blade will cut clothesline with a little effort. Will slice cardboard okay. But I can't get it to pass my phonebook test. I get frustrated because it is a new knife and I feel like I just keep grinding away to nowhere.

Then I realized it may be GEC's full flat grind. Could it be that my little pen blade is, in fact, sharp and it is just a difference in geometry that prevents it slicing the paper?

Am I obsessing over a non-issue?

Why can I sharpen every knife brand I own, including myriad kitchen knives, but none of my GEC knives?

 

[Bigfattyt]

The pen blade should take a laser edge. My first thought is how hard are you pushing? You will likely need a lighter touch with that thin of a blade.

I don't use stones much. I am a sandpaper and rubber pad, followed with a good stropping. My edges will shave little curlies off a hanging hair.

You may just be pushing a wire edge back and forth. Without being there to watch, and feel, I can't say. Try lighter pressure?


With that said, I actually keep my pen blade on my GEC a little less keen. Sharp enough to easily shave hair, but not hair whittling (curlie cues) sharp. I do this because of the uses I have for that blade.


Good luck. GEC does their steel right, and I find it to be easy to get great edges compared to some other stels.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

It could be the geometry of the edge itself. It's not uncommon for small blades, like a pen, to have rather wide edge angles, in spite of the relatively thin profile of the blade as a whole. Small blades can mislead one's assumptions about how sharp they should be, from the factory. Blade looks thin, so it's easy to assume it should slice well. But the edge profile itself is the roadblock, if it's too obtuse. Slicing phone book paper is a good test of edge geometry; it's real easy to see, feel and even hear the difference as a razor-thin edge slices through, compared to a blunter, but still sharp edge profile.

If the edge angle is too obuse on that small blade, trying to make it sharper on ceramic can be an exercise in frustration. The tiny bit of angle variation inherent in using the Sharpmaker can easily round off the edge of a small blade, in short time. The bevels themselves are very narrow on a tiny blade with an obtuse edge angle, and it doesn't take much inconsistency to round them on the ceramic hone. Use something a bit more aggressive, like a fine/ef diamond hone, to reset the edge bevel to a more acute angle. I recommend a finer grit, because this blade is so small and not much metal needs to be removed to reset the bevel. You could also use some wet/dry sandpaper (maybe 400 -600 grit) against the rods of the Sharpmaker. After setting a new bevel, refine that edge on the ceramic rods, using very light pressure.

 

[SubSpace]

Thank you, gentlemen.

David, if I go the sandpaper route on the sharpmaker, do I want to use the 40 or 30 side for setting that bevel?

This is so frustrating for me. A hundred dollars is not necessarily a lot of money for a knife, but I buy a 20 dollar SAK and it is sharp every time. I never ask nor do I expect hair whittling sharpness from a factory. I just ask that it cut paper for my hundred dollars...

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thank you, gentlemen.

David, if I go the sandpaper route on the sharpmaker, do I want to use the 40 or 30 side for setting that bevel?

This is so frustrating for me. A hundred dollars is not necessarily a lot of money for a knife, but I buy a 20 dollar SAK and it is sharp every time. I never ask nor do I expect hair whittling sharpness from a factory. I just ask that it cut paper for my hundred dollars...

Personally, I'd choose the 30 side. That could be helpful later, if you decide to put a micro bevel on it with the 40 side. I'd bet you won't need that for the light uses expected from a pen blade, but just in case.

I don't have a GEC, but I've heard they run their 1095 blades a bit harder than others. Especially as compared to SAKs from Victorinox; their steel is quite soft. That difference might also be contributing to some of your frustrations.

 

[SubSpace]

Thanks again. I will try this on the 30 degree side.

I wish I could learn to sharpen freehand, but I apparently lack any talent in that area.

 

[shudaizi]

If it's any consolation, I had a similar problem with my first GEC (white owl). From the factory it was so dull, that I could press it into my arm with considerable pressure and draw/pull -- wouldn't break the skin at all. First two to three times I tried sharpening it, it seemed to improve only marginally -- it would cut but still wouldn't shave arm hair. I haven't had this trouble with other knives or steels (Case CV, Opinel 1095, Benchmade 154CM, Chris Reeve S30V, etc.). Finally I tried using really, really light pressure and that seems to have done the trick: both blades are sharp now. The earlier tries, in effect reprofiled the edge from the obtuse angles and the repeat with very, very light pressure -- on DMT Diasharp Fine, then 6000 King stone, then plain horse butt strop -- got it to where I'm happy.

 

[jacktrades_nbk]

I'd do a 30 bevel first, and then a 40 microbevel. A sharpie marker will help a lot.
Here is my queen serpentine jack when i bought it. You can see the edge bevel is very narrow, and is above 40 degrees.

Here it is after i worked a lot on the 30 degree setting, both sharpmaker and free hand. Notice how the edge bevel became wider.

In the above pics, with some passes on the 40 degree setting, thus creating a microbevel, the knife was cutting well through paper and was shaving hair off my arms.

But i wanted even a thinner blade/edge, so in the next picture, both blades had been reprofiled. Notice how now the edge bevel is narrow again, be it 40 or 30, but that is because it was reprofiled to a zero edge, just a bit convex right on the edge.

After this, it became a true slicing pleasure, push cutting through any paper, and if dulled, back to hair whittling sharp from just a few passes on the sharpmaker rods.

 

[Corso]

I'd do a 30 bevel first, and then a 40 microbevel. A sharpie marker will help a lot.
Here is my queen serpentine jack when i bought it. You can see the edge bevel is very narrow, and is above 40 degrees.

Here it is after i worked a lot on the 30 degree setting, both sharpmaker and free hand. Notice how the edge bevel became wider.

QUOTE]

now that looks sharp

how much work is that on a sharpmaker - i realy am not disaplined enough to get the 30 bevel first but it looks like I realy should be....

 

[jacktrades_nbk]

On the brown rods, mostly corners and sometimes the flats, it took about 4 hours. I've also used some diamond stones, for maybe 20 minutes. Tough steel that D2. I'd recommend a diamond setup for the rebevel, it would take maybe less than half that time.
Of course, the later re profile job on a belt sander took a few minutes...

 

[SubSpace]

I really appreciate all the help and suggestions. I think I'm going to practice on a not-as-nice knife before attempting this on my GEC. That Queen jack looks sweet!

 

[Billy516]

FWIW, I've had similar experiences with 2 of my 3 GECs. I did as recommended above and put a 30* back bevel on using the Sharpmaker with diamonds first, then brown rods. Took about 30 minutes to do this, then put a 40* microbevel on going from diamonds thru UF rods on the Sharpmaker. All told, it took maybe an hour or a little longer to take my White Owl's main clip blade from not able to cut notebook paper cleanly to hair whittling sharp. The diamond and UF stones for the Sharpmaker are most definitely worthwhile investments.

 

[Corso]

On the brown rods, mostly corners and sometimes the flats, it took about 4 hours. I've also used some diamond stones, for maybe 20 minutes. Tough steel that D2. I'd recommend a diamond setup for the rebevel, it would take maybe less than half that time.
Of course, the later re profile job on a belt sander took a few minutes...

thanks for the info - will give it a go

 

[AngryDaddyBird]

Try a lansky sytem. Worked for me.