General Announcement!! Mark can move if needed

blgoode

blgoode

Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
7,210
PLEASE

- keep your money in your pocket unless.....

The Goods are ready to ship from seller

The knife is made from a maker

whatever it is your wanting to buy......buy it

Not a Promise of that item.

If you send money to a seller for items they do not have yet or have not made yet do not be upset when you dont get them.

Seems like simple rules to follow.

Just cant believe guys are still having poor deals and yet guys still send people money for promised goods.

Mark - Sorry if this is out of line but I have not responded on other threads because I dont have a dog in those so to speak and needed to speak out :)
 
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Was just waiting for someone to step up and say it. Its a shame whats been going on around here, specially for those of us with limited funds.

I dont think you are out of line at all and speak what a lot of us have been thinking for some time now.
 
I personally don't request funds from a customer till the knife is finished, but not all transactions work this way I have even been takin when the item was ready to go they simply didn't ship it. You take a chance no matter what it is not always clean cut and simple. People have to remember that not following through on your transaction will catch up to you.

Its a shame you just can't take people at their word anymore.
 
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Brian, I am interested to see if this thread gets any more attention than the one I started. I tried the tactful approach and started a thread in the Support forum http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=687527 asking if Spark would consider just posting a General Rule for all Makers & Dealers saying " NO Pre Sales, Deposits, Selling Items not Completed", etc.

There are several Makers & Inventors that have had troubles here by taking Money up front, some recently and some long past. Makers like Gilbert (Ross) Norfleet used the Forums taking pre-payments, deposits, etc. and finally either left of got Banned.

Recently , a rash of newer Inventors and Makers have the used the forums the same way, some walked away with Money, some got called out and I think learned a lesson while still others have never changed and continue to abuse the privelege of selling here as a general rule of business.

Hope your thread wakes some folks up, but I doubt it will....
 
Just my 2 cents worth.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a seller asking for a deposit on something that they are custom making for the customer. This sorts the committed buyer from the talkers.

But........ the buyer should take it upon themselves to do a little looking into the background of the seller. It should be made clear when you will receive the item and your recourse if it is not ready at the agreed upon time. This does not give any real protection, it just makes sure you both have the same understanding. Assumptions will always cause troubles.

If the seller can not afford to purchase the materials without your prepaying in full, there is a good chance they will still be unable to afford to purchase the materials after you pay. Too many times people on a shoestring budget will try to collect from a new purchaser to pay for the previous purchaser's materials. This sort of juggling act can get out of control real quick.

I guess what I am saying here is that if a deal sounds too good to be true there is probably a good reason. Trust your gut feelings.

Perhaps prepaying for something that is not yet available should be considered the same way you would if loaning money to someone.
Do you know enough about them to make a reasonable guess whether you will get paid back? Can you afford to lose the money? Would it be better to spend a few dollars more and get what you wanted now without the risk?

Just some food for thought.
 
I don't know if Mark is moderating here anymore.

I haven't been reading whatever brought this on. Posting it here seems to be addressing knifemakers specifically. But it isn't a sale in itself. Shouldn't it go in Shop Talk?
 
Customer relations is everything. Period!

Having a good rapport with those that you are selling to is a must for building any business; if you are interested in staying in business for any length of time.

Well said by the way.

Fred
 
I am pretty sure he is talking mainly about this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656656

Several of us fronted the funds for this buy, and it all went south. If it was a speculation thing, I would blame no one but myself, but it was a straight up purchase order, which seems never to have been made. Dan is not an unknown name around here, so no one was uneasy about the deal. Refunds were offered, and some got theirs. Since then,........ nothing. Those of us still waiting have heard no reply from Dan.

There was another maker who was selling grinder kits. Unfortunately he did not have them , and took the money anyway.
Stacy
 
I feel anytime you sell something you should accept the responsabilities of paying out of your pocket UP FRONT BEFORE SALES BEGIN. IF YOU CANT HANDLE THE PURCHASE FEE TO GET PRODUCT IN HAND YOUR NOT IN THE POSITION TO BE SELLING THAT SAID PRODUCT OR YOU NEED TO SCALE BACK YOUR OPERATION SO YOU CAN HANDLE THE RESPONSABILITY OF SELLING SAID PRODUCT.

Thats just my way of thinking and I wont get into the reasons other people get money up front. This thread isnt about that really.

Again - Just my way of thinking just to cover my own butt and bank account as I personally cant afford to purchase the materials for say 150 knives. I dont expect my customers to financially front my operation simply because I want to make 150 knives. If I cant swing the bill for that quantity, I dont offer that quantity. Thats just my way of doing things and I dont offer knives not made yet so again I am getting off topic.

I wont get into what threads lately that I have been shaking my head at but I will give you one past scenerio I sat shaking my head at going "Come on Guys, look before you leap."

It was a blade forum knifemakers calander buy. Guy stated that he was going to put together a calandar. Guy setting that up (in my way of thinking) AUTOMATICALLY accepts the responsability of having it designed and paying for it to be printed just from the simple act of stating you will offer them for purchase.

Forum members out of excitement were sending paypal payments before any design work had begun on the calandar. Whats wrong here????

I was looking forward to that Calandar and I let seller know I wanted 4 but never sent payment and I was never pissed because the calandar didnt happen or have to go through pulling teeth to get my funds back.

There is something to be said for holding on to your money untill product is "SALEABLE" be it hairbows or CD's.

I am not wanting to preach what the forum board should do at all or judge guys who want to sale items they cant or wont afford to purchase up front.

I am reminding guys that IF YOU GIVE YOUR MONEY AWAY THERE IS ALWAYS A RISK BEFORE PRODUCT IS SHIPPED....... BUT A HIGHER RISK AND HIGHER CHANSE OF BUYER FRUSTRATION IF PRODUCT ISNT EVEN AT THE LOCATION OF SELLER YOU GAVE MONEY TO FOR HIS "WORD" TO GET YOU WHAT YOU PAID FOR.

I AM SAYING THAT ITS BETTER TO BUY WHAT YOU HAVE ACCESS TO AND SPEND A LITTLE MORE MONEY THAN TRY AND SAVE A BUCK.

The link posted above you can buy 12"x12" Natural Micarta is $27 (Sheffield supply has 12"x10" for $25.55)

In the link above 12" x 12" black is $27 (Sheffield supply has 12"x10" for $25.56)

In the link above 12" x 12" green is $32 (Sheffield supply has 12"x10" for $36.90)

Really - Where's the savings?? If a 12" x 12" went for like $14 maybe it would be worth it to organise the project.

Never understood that thread but the savings just aint worth the trouble when I can get the same thing minus 2" of it all day every day and its in stock and Sheffield shipps fast for basically the same money. Not picking on that thread but dont see where the point is in organising that much stuff for the money involved.

Enjoy the forum but dont be so fast to part with your money on items not ready to ship.

I am pleased when I have customers tell me I have never had so much fun buying a custom knife. "Going through the process with you was cool!" That means I did something right and keeps me proud to sell knives.

DANG! Sorry if I got long winded but I hope some guys dont get burned in the future because we took time to lay out some examples on the table for guys to learn from.
 
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Lets just say i'm not ever taking money up front ever agian. the scribes taught me a great lession. i never thought it would take as long as it did to get the bugs worked out. i made one and thought o ok that went ok. but i did not relize what was ahead when trying to do production. It was very stressfull. it makes me sad when i see people just steal other knifemakers HARD earnd cash.
 
Boy, If I don't have trust, I got nothin'. 90% of my sales are commisioned works, they are sold before they are built, to my costumers specifications. It takes me a year to build the knives because of the sometimes technical assemblies and propper amount of curing between steps. I just shipped my last of the 2008 orders and am beginning to forge steel for the '09 orders. If I didn't take deposits I would take a huge chance of people reneging on knives I might not be able to resell very easily because of some at-times unusual design requests. I do let my customers know up front about the long lead times and they are generally understanding.

I'm very sorry to hear about people getting burned, it makes it harder for any of us to do anything. This forum is an outstanding opportunity to network, learn some stuff and maybe even sell something once in a while. It's a wonder that people will ruin that for themselves for a few bucks. The knife making community is very small and its getting easier for word to get around. It's far easier to make a buck doing things the right way.
 
sgmtino said:
I agree with you mark knapp
Click to expand...
Sounds like mark has made and effort to keep his name in good standing. Good for him and thats what it takes if you agree to accept peoples money.

Ill stop throwing in my 2 cents as I have said enough but the buyer has some resposabilities as to what there comfortable with and be up front if you cant pay ahead of time and be okay waiting. IF that agreed wait time has been exceeded complain RIGHT AWAY as the agreement wasnt followed.
:)
 
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I agree the buyer has to trust the seller before there can be any type of deposit or preorder that is why I always try to keep everyone updated as to where I am at in the progress of the knives I send pics and updates and will tell them if I happen to have a setback on anything just my 2 cents
 
I myself never take funds upfront on an order . I'm with Brian on that , If I cannot fund the purchase of the materials there is a problem with my finances . I also though , will not accept an order if I feel the knife would be difficult to sell if the buyer needs to back away from the request .
 
Good thread Brian i have seen a lot of disapointed people that where only to happy to send money to others on promises to make things.

Bob
 
i seem to trust almost anyone on this forum. I figured if the guys been around awhile and is in good status-i would take the chance. With the link listed above--i dont know how in the world it has gone on so long. I myself would not sell anything unless it was in my possession. I know shite happens but sometimes things seem hard to digest. Live and Learn for all-thanks marekz
 
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