General Forum or Ad Space?

Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
1,442
I've noticed a trend that I'm not sure I like concerning the use of this "General Forum" space. While Bladeforums is very strict that sales and advertisements not be posted anywhere but the "For Sale" areas, many "new knife" announcements have been allowed in this "General Forum". Several makers (including one moderator) and the president of at least one knife company have used this space to announce the release of new models for sale. Some have even included availability info and prices.

Now, I'm not exactly upset. I enjoy a post with a pretty picture of a knife in it, especially one I've never seen before. And I have no problem with people posting pictures of knives in the course of discussions to illustrate points (indeed, I do this with my own knife pictures perhaps too frequently). But I do feel that these "knife announcements" are perilously close to advertising and we run the risk of turning this into a "what's new for sale" area.

What's wrong with that, you say? Nothing! I'd like to know what's new and available as well. But I'd like this area to remain free of this info, and have it succinctly presented elsewhere. So my proposal is for a new forum devoted to new knife announcements, sort of another "For Sale" area where posters only put new knife models that area available for purchase or order. No old items and no one-offs, as these can go through normal selling channels. This would give us a one-stop forum for what's new and hot any given week. Plus it would leave this forum free for our less, um, businesslike ramblings.

Your thoughts?

-Drew
 
The general forum is for use by any and all. No commercial posts are allowed; meaning that you can not post a particular item for sale in this forum.

You can however announce a new product or service to our members in the general forum. The service must be free of charge and not associated with a web site that generates spin off revenue.

The product may be from any custom maker (they need all the help they can get) or manufacturer as a service to our members. This is only to announce NEW products and not a push to move existing inventory.

This rule of course does not apply to BladeForums as we can generate revenue from any forum at any time. We however try on our own to keep this to a minimum.

Of course this can be abused so I will watch it carefully and I understand your concern.

Should we create a new forum for this particular type of thread?
I do not feel this is the appropriate time as we have too many forums as it is. The general forum is quite capable of handling this type of traffic.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
To Corduroy:

I don't quite understand what you dislike about OE letting BF members know in the General Forum that our new models are now available. We have been advertising these knives for several months in Blade and TK and I'm sure a number of BF members who have pre-ordered or are interested to see production photos of these knives are glad to hear they are now available.

Our "They're Here (With Pics)" post was not intended to be a billboard ad to sell knives but an announcement that the knives are now available with color photos and specs for those interested. The fact that this topic currently has 33 replies, including one from you, indicates this type of announcement is of interest in the General Forum.

One inconvenience with BladeForums is the time delay in moving from one Forum to another. Since only a handful of manufacturers actively participate in BF, combined with the fact that most manufacturers introduce only a few new items each year; a new forum which only announced new product releases would be the least active forum in BF.

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Sincerely,
Outdoor Edge Cutlery Corp.

David Bloch,
President

Visit our new web site at http://www.outdooredge.com



[This message has been edited by David Bloch (edited 02 September 1999).]
 
While I agree that it may be a bad idea to set precedent that any new knives can be announced in the general forum, I don't feel that it's a problem at this time. Currently, the number of posts like this is relatively small, and easy to spot because people are labelling the threads correctly. If it were to get to the point of pushing products, though, I agree that this type of thread should be moved into a different forum. I realize that this is a fuzzy line, and telling where it is isn't easy. For now, I think this is something that we should keep in mind and if the general consensus is that it's gotten out of hand then maybe that other forum should be made.

On a similar note, I've seen manufacturers mentioning their products when people ask about certain items. This I think steps over the line a little more. It's fine for other forumites to mention it, but if the manufacturer is, then this is indeed advertising.

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JP Bullivant


[This message has been edited by jpbulli (edited 02 September 1999).]
 
OK, this is what I wanted to hear. My post, as stated was supposed to get across three points:

(1) I see something happening.

(2) I'm not sure if it's a good thing (and my reasons why).

(3) I propose a possible solution.

It sounds like at this time other folks do see the phenomenon (1). They don't feel it's a bad thing (2), and they think that my solution would do more harm than good (3). That's all I wanted to know, and I hope I haven't needlessly offended anyone.

-Drew
 
No offense taken at all. In fact I need all the help I can get. Sometimes my perspective is skewed because of my proximity to the industry. So in actuality, thanks for the heads up and feel free to post again when you feel the line has been crossed.

In fact we need each of you (members) to let us know when something is amiss. We may not give you the exact response you are looking for but we do and will try.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
Drew, I do see the trend you are speaking of, and while being far from alarmed I am growing annoyed. Not with general announcements, but with makers posting thier wares in responce to every even remotely relevent question or thread. Placing a link to your site or other information in your signature should be enough.

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James
 
I think it is nice to see new pics of knives, as well as availablity dates and that sort of thing. I would rather not see pricing on the pages, though. By eliminating pricing in these posts they lose overt commercial content, and this also avoids a definition as to what advertising is (i.e isn't a third party telling what they paid for a certain product pretty much the same thing?).
I think we should allow the posting of new products and that sort of thing, but let's just leave prices out. I think it is interesting, in fact, that a few weeks ago I was emailed by a moderator with a warning to not use the forums for commercial purposes when I think all I did was mention what a sheath idea may cost (it was an estimated ballpark figure, even). I'm small potatose, but I guess the wrong person looked at the wrong post at the wrong time. I can see the point, though, and I certainly feel that ALL commercial folks, regardless of size, contribution, status, etc should be held to the same standards.

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My Custom Kydex Sheath pagehttp://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
 
Right on Chiro. I will police that part. Thanks.

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
I feel that excluding prices and keeping content to features and benfits is the way to go.

A maker might mention his knife to illustrate a point, that seems perfectly cool. But I think something should be contributed to the thread other than "Here is my knife". Using any old thread as an excuse to post your knives seems kinda blatant.

But saying that there are 4 in stock, and how much and delivery times and etc should be handled by email.

James K Mattis often mentions that this or that is available, but I like him doing it because he is offering a service, great pictures of the knife and first impressions, as well he keeps the buying and selling out of it, that is already understood.

Steve, I may have been the culprit in pointing out your post. Sorry, nothing about your post, just the stuff that is being brought out about advertising in the Forums.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

My site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html

Check out my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/kasperafck.html

 
Dear Mike T:

When you are interested or perhaps just curious about a product the first thing you want to know is, How much?

I therefore would like to get your feedback on announcing MSRP in Forum posts since several BF members say they don't want to see this information. For one, OE does not sell products retail. I feel our announcing MSRP simply gives people a reference for what the product sells for. Even if you are not interested in a product it's nice to know how much it costs. We all use the internet as a source for information and I feel leaving off MSRP can be inconvenient since it forces the consumer to search for this information elsewhere.

As a BF member/moderator I agree that all of us don't want the General Forum to turn into "Ad Forums". I for one will be sure to leave off any extra advertising "Hype" or "Fluff" when OE announces new items. At the same time I do feel MSRP is viable information.

Thank you for your attention.

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Sincerely,
Outdoor Edge Cutlery Corp.

David Bloch,
President

Visit our new web site at http://www.outdooredge.com



[This message has been edited by David Bloch (edited 03 September 1999).]
 
David B,

I think the best way to handle that is by anouncing your product and withold pricing info altogether. If a member asks how much the knife is there are two ways I would like to see it handled.

First I would place, in your anouncement, a link to your web site (Manufacturers & Custom Makers only) which states "For more information CLICK HERE". The more information should include MSRP.

If the item is not up on a makers site yet, then they can list all pertinent info with their post including MSRP.

I am not sure at what point this will be abused or if in fact it has been abused already. When it becomes a very obvious problem I will consider another forum for announcements of this type.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
I am strongly for someone being able to post in a thread asking about a product even if they are the ones selling it. I would be more than irritated if I asked about a particular knife and an unknown maker didn't post about his products. Yes he could just email me, but what about other people interested in the same thing.

But, I don't like announcements of new products by the seller in the general forum of any kind, prices or not. These are just ads - do them elsewhere. However if you are going to allow them then it makes no sense to restrict the price as that is very valuable information and of no difference than any other. You see ads all the time with no mention of price - they are still ads.

-Cliff
 
As a new member of BF I have to say that I'm incredibly impressed with the decorum exhibited in this group. For years I posted in the archery newsgroups and I'm still the keeper of the faqs (though a negligent one), I was amazed at how little it took to set the flames in motion.

I realize that this group is moderated but still, the sense of fair and open discussion here is palpable and I'm impressed. I also realize I haven't been around too long and I'm sure I'vw missed some heated battles but nevertheless, from what I can see, BF is a class act and the people that post here deserve to pat themselves on the back. Not only is there a high level of expertise in the posts, but a high level of civility as well.

Kudos to the people that run this forum as well!

Terry Trier
 
Just in case no one has noticed, I have included a few (well, perhaps many) links to Gene Osborn's Center Cross Metal Works as part of my posts.
I assure everyone I have no financial relationship with Gene except for having put my family into debt (not too much) in order to pay for the short sword he has agreed to make for me (and has just yesterday sent to the heat treater).
I only have an overflowing enthusiasm for and appreciation of Gene and his wife, Pat.
On the selfish side, I secretly think (I hardly even tell myself) that I have gotten a very good deal from a very talented and, as of yet, undiscovered knife maker.
Someday my short sword will skyrocket in value and braggin' rights.

Mike: if you did not have a real investment in this forum I might criticize some of the product promotion that goes on here.
However, you pay the bills, make your living here and have supported this forum in every way possible.
You not only have the right to use this medium to promote your business, you have an indirect obligation to do so.
Forgive me for preaching to the pastor: you understand this better than I.
Still, the fact that the subject came up at all might help you, and others (me too!), find that perfect balance...


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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11
 
For those of you who do not attend knife shows the best part of the show usually takes place in an informal setting the evening before the show or after the first day of the show. We call it "show and tell".
Basically it is a get together of makers when we bring out the newest and fanciest product that we have just completed or are working on. By seeing what is happening everyone learns and benefits. It is not necessary to discuss price to learn.

I suggest that we look at this forum as a form of "show and tell" and not try to make it too sterile. I will lose interst if there are no pictures to look at or no open flow of information.

By open flow of information I believe that a simple "look at what I just finished" is acceptable but the addition of "only $79.95" is unacceptable. Another situation where a menber asks "where can I find?" I believe that a simple "look at my site" is an acceptable response because there might be others out there who would like to know as well.

What keeps my interest up in spite of the unending queries about "What is the best Steel" is the loose atmosphere that has been fostered here.

Don't change a thing Mike.


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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com

 
I feel that things are going just fine. I appreciate and enjoy looking at high res. pics. that BF members post.

The only thing to watch is if irrelevant pictures and other information are posted in a given thread.

I don't mind having a MRSP, or having a link to MSRP information, only something along the lines of "Only an idiot would pay more than..." would be innapropriate.

I believe that Mike has full right to post whatever advertizement he pleases for his business, as he puts so much into this forum.

The only thing that REALLY perturbs me is over in the BFA (BladeForumsAuctions). All to often I see things put up for bid by a company, with the reserve price set at what it is normally available through their store. Obviously they are hoping for some idiot to pay more than what they could get it for out of their store!



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I need a bigger bucket.
 
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