General slipjoint/folder questions

T

thegeek574

Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
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Everyone,
I have decided to embark on the path that I originally had in mind when I started getting into knifemaking: folder making. I am planning on making my first a liner less slipjoint in either titanium or G10. By questions begin there, and extend to other aspects of knifemaking. Here are a lit of tools I have access to:
Easily available: TIME
Forge soon
Angle grinder
Bench grinder
Files/sandpaper/ect
Available to a certain extent:
Mill
Metal lathe
2x72

Here are the questions:
1: what would be the optimal thickness for the scales in both materials (Ti and G10)? Thinner is better in this case, and so I am interested less in durability and more in slimness. However, it has to be able to do stuff like cutting tape and other things like this without significant damage to the knife.
2. Will titanium have enough of a spring to work as the backspring?
3. What are some general tips for folder making that would be helpful throughout the entire process?

Thanks much.
Steven
 
I typically use .030" liners and scales can be 1/8 which will match up with bolsters if you try them down the road. I have never done it, but I don't think Ti would be a great back spring. Most people just use a blade steel that can also be brought down to a spring temper for the back spring.

General advice? Assemble, measure/observe, disassemble, adjust. Repeat this sequence about 100 times and you will be close to being finished.

I'm not up on all the little time saving details, so I will let those who do these more often than I do help you out there. I tend to just start with an idea and go from there.


-Xander
 
I will preface this by saying I haven't built a slipjoint, let alone using Ti for a backspring. I have worked with it tho, including in moving part on part contact areas. It's 'sticky' for lack of a better word, and galls easily.
So I think you'd gain springiness and fatigue life and lose on the friction and surface durability.
Mods please remove if not having direct slipjoint experience is an issue, no hard feelings.
Best
Steve
 
Depending on your thoughts on a slipjoint a 2x72 is a big step ahead in the game of slipjoints. A mill
and a disc if available can be real useful. Don't know if you've ever attempted it before so I'll say what
I usually do. Either get a slipjoint kit or take an old one apart to have some idea what you're up against.
Being I don't make liner or frame locks I'm not sure if Ti will work work for a spring. As has been mentioned
most blade steels can be drawn back to spring temper. I'm going to guess and say I don't think liner locks
with Ti as the lock have anywhere near the flex of a slipjoint spring. As far as sideplates, or scales shadow
style, just about anything will work. I'd trust one with 1/16" G10 as a frame. With 1/16" G10 on either side
of .062 blade stock or even thinner with Ti slabs you're going to end up with a very slim knife that will do
anything you want it to.
Ken.
 
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If I read the OP correctly I don't think he is planning to use Ti for the spring but rather either Ti or G10 for the handles without a liner.

Geek, I have built a couple slip joints so take this for what it's worth. With the game plan you are looking at either material should work fine in 1/16" material. I don't know if I would go much thinner than that without a metal liner. fast14riot nailed it too, assemble, inspect, disassemble, repeat. Get it perfect before you hammer those pins. It sucks to drill out pins.

I agree with Ken as well. :)
 
Thanks so much guys. I knew there was a reason that I never saw titanium backsprings, and now i know why :)
I am really excited about a slippie that is thinner than a lot of my knives barstock :D
Finally, another question. What steel would you recommend? I would really like this to hold an amazing edge, and so other characteristics are not that important. I was thinking 52100, but I am not sure. What are your favorites for small, thin blades?
 
I can't speak for a lot of steels but if your heat treating in a forge or something less than an oven,- lets
say its 01 and you are drawing by color. Peacock blue/purple going into dull silver on the draw will give you
a spring thats 47-48 Rc. I'd draw the blade to "dark straw". Amazing edge? tommorow there will be a new
alphabet soup steel that will part silk scarves on the drop---- Think blade geometry.
Ken
 
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I probably should have clarified. I am thinking blade steel at this point. I can get pretty precise with HT on pretty much anything less than stainless.
 
Steven I do know you and know your skill level. Please dont take this the wrong way but you are not near ready for this and please dont wast other makers time on the fourms. Really come on. I know your very young/High on knives and thats cool but you way out of your level on this. I secound closeing this thread.
Sorry if the truth hurts, Brett
 
Brett Mathews said:
Steven I do know you and know your skill level. Please dont take this the wrong way but you are not near ready for this and please dont wast other makers time on the fourms. Really come on. I know your very young/High on knives and thats cool but you way out of your level on this. I secound closeing this thread.
Sorry if the truth hurts, Brett
Click to expand...


I need you to clarify a couple of things. First of all, are you referring to HT or slipjoint making? If it is HT then I have a JS doing it for me :D If it is slipjoint making, then I agree that I don't know a lot, but I do know that, given enough care, study, and time spent, I can turn out a product that I will be happy with. Frankly, that is all I care about.

As far as wasting maker's time, they have no obligation to answer. Unlike a setting in which, face to face, I ask a question so that they have an obligation to answer it, this is an internet forum. If you choose to answer something, that is your choice and there is no obligation.

Please understand that you are probably right. I am probably way out of my depth and will probably fail miserably. However, I am still going to give it a shot and fail or succeed based on what I do, not what someone tells me.

If a mod feels it is appropriate to close the thread, then I will be very happy with that decision. However, I have no way of closing it.
 
What's up with the negativity? Never be afraid to try something above your skill level. Even if it bombs you'll learn something.........usually you learn more from failure than you will from success. Have fun, work safely, and ask questions if you have them. I thought this forum was for questions and answers(hence the name:D).............if the makers on here feel it is a waste of time to answer questions, they don't have to do it.;)
Geek, I use O-1..........and Ken is totally correct when he says think blade geometry.
Darcy:)
 
O1 will be precision ground and if you don't have a surface grinder, I think that would be really helpful in a slipjoint.
 
You can get PG O-1 here in Portland at Pacific Machine.



If you buy a 9" disc, I could get you a 3/4-1Hp single phase reversing motor. You'd be set. Just add paper. It's around $100 for a disc. Chuck will testify to it's usefullness.

It'd be an open frame so you'd need to blow it out every once in awhile.
 
Steven,
You've been given some good advice here. I would just like to say that you are definitely tenacious enough to take on the project. I would take Brian up on his offer. A disc is great for folders and if you ever look at Nick Wheeler's WIP's you can see how valuable they are in most knifemaking. I have only made a half dozen slipjoints. They are difficult to get right and while mine work, they are ugly still. A different steel to think about is 15n20. It comes in thin stock and is pretty forgiving on the HT. Kelly Cupples has it and he isn't that far from you so shipping shouldn't be that bad. Don't get me wrong I love 0-1, but lately I have been using 15n20 on my small knives and I am very impressed.
Good Luck,
Daniel Combs
DanCo
 
Brett Mathews said:
Steven I do know you and know your skill level. Please dont take this the wrong way but you are not near ready for this and please dont wast other makers time on the fourms. Really come on. I know your very young/High on knives and thats cool but you way out of your level on this. I secound closeing this thread.
Sorry if the truth hurts, Brett
Click to expand...

Wow. Glad you don't have any pull. There isn't anything wrong with this thread. Wasting other peoples' time? Speak for yourself.
 
Brian, You have an e-mail.

As to everyone else, Thanks so much. I appreciate the advice. I will see what I can do as far as the O1 goes. If I can't get to Portland, I will be talking to Aldo. He earned my business. As far as 15N20, I will totally look into it.
 
So sounds as if you want to make what collectors refer to as a "skeleton knife." Its one of those little watch fob slip joints with brass or other jewelery metal "covers" that are engraved. Knife companies made the skeletons and sold them to department stores to finish off. I say go t th flea market or any online auction site and pick up an old one to take apart. It will be exactly what you're looking to do. Start off making an exact copy of it, then try changing little things like handle profile, blade shape, size, etc.

I second the use of a disc for getting things square and true. If you don't have a surface plate for truing things by hand, check out a granite counter top show room that also does installs and ask if they have any sink cutouts you could have. Makes a great cheap surface plate. Tape some sandpaper down and have at it.

Good luck!


-Xander
 
From the Moderator:
Lets cut Geek a little slack. He is new and excited...who hasn't been there and done that?
He is asking questions before he tries a new task.......... because he doesn't know what he doesn't know.
I don't think he is ready ,either, but I would just offer advise and maybe have him over for a shop visit if you are near by.

From Stacy:
Getting a book on folders, and reading a lot of tutorials will help a lot. Everything in folders is a bit different.

Precision ground O-1 would be a good choice, as would thin CPM-S35VN ( for stainless). A blade .060 is more than thick enough. The frame can be .030 Titanium, and the whole knife would be about 1/8" thick. Use the same O-1 or CPM-S35VN for the back spring. Make sure the contact area is sanded and polished smooth.

Two frame pieces + one backspring + one blade + three holes + three pins = One Slippie.....about as easy as it gets......but not as easy as it sounds.

A few things that make life easier:
Put in the nail nick before HT.
Only peen the backspring center pin enough to make it stay in place, don't make the backspring pinched too tight. This is a good task for spinning the head and making just enough head to stay in place. The backspring pin can be smaller than the pivot and butt pin - 1/16" is plenty.
You can peen the butt pin snug to lock the frame and backspring tight. Making this pin the same size as the pivot is optically good looking, but not necessary.
Drill the pivot hole in the blade .005" undersize and polish before HT. Then polish again after HT. It needs to be as round, straight, and smooth as possible. Fitting the pivot pin the the blade is easier than fitting the blade to the pin.
Peen the pivot gently. Just enough is all you want. It may be easier to peen it snug with about .010 sticking up, and then spin this extra into a nice domed head.
Remember to put in a shim when peening the pivot! A couple thousandths is about all you need.
Make the pivot and butt pin 1/8" to 3/16".
Most head spinners from the knife suppliers have a large and a small end that will do two size heads.
Drill the backspring center pin holes first in the frames. Stack them,and put in a pin , setting the backspring on the top of the stack. Drill the butt holes for the end of the backspring. Mark and drill the pivot hole. leave it a tad undersize for now.
Leave extra metal on the heel and spine side of the blade blank before HT. You want to slowly remove the excess so the blade sits just clear of the spring when closed, and is flush to the spring when open. Do the closed fit first, then open the knife and grind the spine and spring flush. Doing this right will make the knife "walk and talk".

The final frame shape is often easier to refine after the blade is fitted up, too.
 
Geek (sorry don't remember your real name), spend $25-35 and buy Don Robinson's book "Slipjoints My Way." Seriously, it is worth the money. There are an amazing amount of tips in there, complete step by step pictures, and even a nice little slip joint pattern. I called and talked to Don before I bought it, and talking to him and what kind of guy he is made me get off the fence and buy the book.
 
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