General thought....... why are they seen as Evil??

Clay

Clay

Balisong forum Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 1999
Messages
871
At the forum on my page, recently (and in the past) people have mentioned that I should try to get in a movie as a bad guy with a Balisong.

All but a few (thats you Nick) say the same thing...... Bad guy.

While thinking about this I can't help but naturally see it this way as well. I can't picture the Hero in a movie with a Balisong. I don't know why, but they seem to come across in an "Evil" light, more effectivly than in a "GOOD" one.

I know what some of you are going to say: "The laws against them make it that way,........ blah, blah, blah".

But I don't see that being the case. If we were so concerned about laws, most of us wouldn't be carrying them in the first place, right??

Is there something else to it??

.........or maybe they were just talking about ME being a good "Bad Guy".........LOL
smile.gif


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Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
Clay,
I was one of the people that mentioned the Hollywood thing! After showing many people at work your video clips, the unanimous thought was that you could easily land a spot in a major motion picture using your Balisong skills. I also mentioned something about the negative portrayal of the Bali.
So, let me through the ball back in your court
smile.gif
A "Bad Guy" role would probably be a lot easier to land than a "Good Guy" role since those are usually reserved for the stars!! Do you think it would be possible for a POSITIVE Hollywood portrayal of the Balisongs?? Would a bad ass Bali scene make matters any worse??
I would like nothing more than to see BF's own CLAY, in a major motion picture at his best..... but, would it have a negative effect on the future of our knife rights??
Neil
EDIT: Clay, you would make a great bad guy holding a Tickle-me-Elmo! Nevermind a Bali in each hand
biggrin.gif

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Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock! New Talonite models soon!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

[This message has been edited by Dr.Lathe (edited 03-14-2000).]
 
EDIT: Clay, you would make a great bad guy holding a Tickle-me-Elmo! Nevermind a Bali in each hand.

LOL........ Thanx Dr Lathe. There goes my hopes of being a sidewalk Santa next Christmas
wink.gif


I agree with the fact that I'm destined to be a Bad Guy just due to my......... my........ well, lets just say "casual" look. (LOL) But beyond that, No, I don't think Hollywood could pull off a positive portrayal. And it's not entirely their fault.

I think even if they put one in the hands of Walker, Texas ranger, People will think "Oh NO, Walker's goin' bad". Like going from a mainstream Cop character, to one thats out of control (a rebel). All because of that choice of weapon.

Take for instance, the President...... NO, someone with some integrity......... How about, the Pope. Say, He's preachin' away in front of a few million people, and someone hands him an envelope. He whips out a Bali, slices the envelope open, and the Bali disappears as quickly as it came out.

Quick, innocent, and effective. BUT, how many of those people in the audience will never look at him the same again (but in a bad way) just because of that Balisong???

My guess is quite a few. Sure they'll still listen to him, and love him, and respect him....... but something about how they "SEE" him, will change.

As much as I would LOVE to play a Bad Guy role, just because, I know I could pull off a VERY convincing Bad Guy (Balisong aside). I don't think it would be in the best interest of our knife rights. Not that I wouldn't still do it. After all, I do HATE my job. And with any luck, a Bad Guy role would let me do THIS full time
wink.gif


....Man, talk about being between a rock and a hard place!




------------------
Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
Remember the scene in the first 'Dirty Harry' movie, where Clint Eastwood is taping a switchblade to his leg as a back up weapon and his boss says "It disgusts me that you know how to use that thing." This has been going on a long time.

I have never figured out that how a knife opens can make it 'good' or 'evil' in real life, but you have to admit Hollyweird certainly has influenced the average sheeple on this.

I am an LEO sergeant for a small island community, where IMHO I am reasonably well respected. I normally did not carry my Balisong on duty just becasue of the image problem. Recently I got called out to a crime scene on my day off, to do some prints off the entry window. The victims were talking to me while I did this. They know me and were very friendly. I had to cut some evidence tape and I grabbed my Balisong and flipped it open.

The conversation stopped and I looked at the husband and wife, who were slightly bug eyed. The wife then asked if I had 'learned that' (the opening) from the crooks I arrested. I took the time to explain that it was my favorite knife, how it worked and why it was such a great folder design. The husband appeared to get it, but the wife obviously thought this was not proper for an LEO.

What can we do about it? I haven't got a clue, but the above mentioned incident galvanized me to start carrying my Balisong as my duty knife. Hopefully, I can be an ambassador for Balisongs as a 'good knife' instead of an 'evil one'.
 
I also mentioned before that you could probably whip ass as a WWF wrestler but that's a whole different story
biggrin.gif


I had a conversation with my professior today about balisongs (I showed him my knife and he let me handle a 10,00.00 lockback my hands trembling although we have different interest in knives it was a nice conversation.

I do comics on the side and most of my good guys carry balisongs they are unfortunately never seen as a 'John Wayne' but more of a 'anti hero tragic good guy' because of the balisong. thus another influence of media we will probably never get over.

I thinkit will be a long time until balisongs will be seen in a good light but you HAVE to admit besides our evangelistic crusade Clay there IS some appeal to being that anti-hero. Or else the bali woudl loose much f it's mystery/charm. you think?

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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
Sniperboy, uh, who made that $10,000 knife?

Just curious and is this professor a collector of sorts or a one time buyer, I would guess he is a major collector to have a knife of that caliber!

And what butterfly did you present him with?

Evil, hmmm well most movies do portray the bad guy holding the butterfly knife, though one I saw the good guy take one away from the bad guy and dazzle him and then kick the crap out of him, but not with the knife. Maybe the spinning and flashing of a weapon automatically puts that knife in that classification?


G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...


G2 LeatherWorks
 
Although we don't like it,they do have a bad image.Two stories:
I had a very nice balisong my wife and I were giving as a present to a well known martial arts master from the Philipines. I decided to get it engraved and walked in a jewelry store that specialized in this.After giving instructions on what I wanted the staff gathered around the knife and asked what it was. This was a long time ago before they were well known. I opened and closed it rapidly,one handed and the owner said " Boy I wouldn't want to meet you in a dark alley!" I responded that if he was in trouble and in a dark alley that he would be happy to see me as I might save his skin.

Story two. Someone I know who is a LEO and giving a course in unconventional weapons carried by bad guys was showing me some of the stuff. One thing was this balisong pen that Taylor cutlery use to make that looks like two pens in your pocket. I picked it up and did some openings from the pocket with it. His response was "I would just shoot someone like you".
Like I said they are scary to most people and I don't know what the cure for that is.

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Tim



[This message has been edited by timdennis (edited 03-15-2000).]
 
If you read my balisongs in the movies page, you'll see a theme: the bad buys carry balisongs. In the two cases I know of where the hero carries a balisong, they are both rather dark heros.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
You could play as one of those "positive role model" types". You know, like Chuck Norris always does. Getting kids off of the streets and teaching them discipline and respect though the art of the Balisong. You could become a pillar of the community, a leader people look up to.
 
G2, I will try to get you the name of that maker. My teacher is not a one time collector he amasses lots of knives. He's also the guy you wouldn;t see in IKEA and woudl rather buid his furniture with ihs own baer hands and does a damn good job of it too.

He bought this knife for over a 1000.00 $ like 10 years ago. THe faded price tag was still there. It was made by a guy who had a stroke and doean't do knives no more. It is now qorth 10 times that. The maker makes his own damascus and the special thing about it is that noone can figure out how he make 'embossed' letters appear on his blade.

sadly my teacher is a more traditional collector.. jeveleed work knives and lockbacks while I am the tac freak =). I will try to askl him the name of the maker again.

I showed him one of my Balisongs I had handy and we talked abou how weird it was cause it'd probably be slower in some respects to open it than with a one armed folder.

my best balisong 'hero' is still the hero in tales of the crypt demon knight.

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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
The only way I see the balisong getting 'over' as a good weapon is by couching it in a cultural drama.

F'r'instance...

It's WWII, and the filipino kali master is teaching his students using the traditional filipino weapons. They then go on to defeat the bad guys.

It's modern times, and a filipino detective comes to the US to hunt down a nasty serial killer. Blah blah blah, the final fight scene is where our hero, using culturally correct weapons.

I think you see where I'm going with this... unless the balisong is viewed as a tool of cultural enlightenment, the veneer of previous portrayals will never wear off.

Clay, we could have you as a student of some filipino master. The master is killed by the evildoers, and you go on the vengeance trail with your master's balisong. Your master trained you in its use, but told you never to use it except in a worthy cause (Excalibur reference). You then go out and fight, winning the day.



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-ramius
"oderint dum metuant"
 
Sniperboy, sounds like that maker might have been Hugh Bartrug, a very nice man and an excellent knife maker, he lives down in Florida now since his stroke and has stopped making knives, he used to live up near Pittsburgh I believe, Rick Hinderer had some training from him so he got a good start on his knife making, Rick also makes his own Damascus and Mokume and will soon be putting out some Butterfly knives, around the $200 range, his email is
rhinder64@aol.com

Tell em G2 sent ya
biggrin.gif

G2

------------------
"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...


G2 LeatherWorks
 
I have a feeling that any acquaintances (to distinguish from closer friends) look at me in a slightly different light (at least for a few days) when they find out exactly what my shiny hand exerciser/relaxation implement (used closed) is.

I don't think anyone's noticed that I have seven
wink.gif
broken or getting-there crap Jags taking up half my main desk drawer (residence, not work).

There's also something incorporated into the manipulation, as a few people have picked it up, done a couple banana openings, but have not asked me to put it away or "where did you get that thing?"

I think the balisong is best described as "badass", not evil. Hardcore people don't blink an eye, the savvy think balisongs are cool, and only the worse sheeple are truly unsettled by them. Evil is more difficult to get (I can't think of an evil object in general ... maybe that implement for lust in Seven).

BTW, God of Gamblers (popular HK movie) has a comical scene where a minor mob boss flashes his incredible 'continuous ricochet' manipulation in Chow Yun Fat's face. The hero blocks the arm, grabs the closed bali, and proceeds to alternate between slashing the villain's clothes (while flipping, no less!) and slapping him. The bali eventually ends up in the poor guy's leg. Interesting difference in attitudes.
 
It seems to me that the Bali-song is an evil weapon because it is a Filipino weapon. Soon after the U.S. saw the Filipines (Spelled wrong maybe?) they thought it looked like a nice place. Well the U.S. was in its imperialistic mode, or trying to "make the would ours" mintality. Well we took the Filipines with force. The Filipinos fought the U.S. and never gave up.....just as they did with the Japanesess. We banned all weapons, this is the start of the "bad" rep. I am sure there were many GIs that wrote home about the ferocity of the filipinos with there outlawed weapons, one of these was a weapon that could seemingly come out of no where (there back pocket maybe) at close range, this was most likely dubed the butterfly knife to the Americans. This is how I look at it based on what I have learned. The movies have just used this flashy weapon because it can look intimidating when open in a certain way. Which would most likely be to slow in a combat situation vs. a fixed blade.
Plus the Bowie is an American knife all "true" americans carry one. This seems to be the message of movies with knifes in them. Well at least the older ones. You look at moivies like Blade and see the Ninjitsu (I think) style blade.

Dont take me wrong, I am proud to be an american, but one must know your past.

Hawaii was also aquired during this time.

Vlad
 
yes G2 It IS Hugh Bartrug. My etache is abig fan of his. (sorry for the junk post)
smile.gif


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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
A good part of the fear definately comes from a lack of understanding. As squemish as sheeple might be around a lockback or liner lock, they probably have seen swiss army knives up close and are familiar with the basic principle of blade on a single pivot. But adding a second handle and pivot and a latch and it suddenly looks alien to them. Not to mention the quick opening done with a flick of the wrist or fancier manuvers.

The little bit of added complexity goes a long way in making balisongs harder to understand and people often fear what they do not comprehend. I have a number of friends who did not know what I was refering to when I mentioned balisongs or butterfly knives and those that do know probably wouldn't be able to identify the country of origin. Most would probably guess Japan and that it was a ninja implement.

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Simon Yu

"I look at it this way. If things get much worse I'll be too dead to care."
 
If not ninja, many people I met thought every Japanese but a baby has a black belt of Judo or Karate...

A knife will take a violent bloody image on it which sheeple repels. Knife is less appealing than a sword in a movie, so it must be thrown into action, that ends in blood or injury or death. I know only one story that has a knife in it but no bloody image with it.

It's ... "Peter Pan".



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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
I know this is an old topic, but I have been busy lately and missed it.

Here is the problem I see. The "bad guys" are using the balisongs as "weapons" to cause harm to "good guys." Its a scene that is evil any way you look at it. To fix the problem, we need to see good guys in the movies using a bali just as they would any regular pocket knife.

For example, put a balisong in the hand of Mel Gibson in one of the Lethal Weapon Movies. Instead of him killing someone with it, he just casually pulls it out, does a basic horizontal open, cuts open a box, closes it, and puts it away. Now it is just a "tool" used by a hero in a movie, and not an "evil weapon of death."

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John

Balisongs - Because switchblades are just too damn boring.
 
I don't know that I agree with that GrossePointe, plus the Mel Gibson character wasn't the best choice for your point.

He is, after all, the "Out of control, break the rules, suicidal" character. Not exactly the champion of OUR cause. IF ya' know what I mean.

The problem I have is, anyone that uses a Balisong is looked at differently. Yet there are more Homicides with Baseball bats, golf clubs, and kitchen cutlery. Go figure.




------------------
Clay
www.balisongxtreme.com
Because......
getting 'em open
is half the fun!
 
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