geo thermal, heat pump and/or propane gas furnace

boring

boring

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I have a 3182 square foot old house. Furnace took a dump and it is too old to put the money into it. Not sure what to do, but gotta do something quick. Never had central air. There are heating ducts going to half of the house and electric baseboard in the other half. Any recommendations for heating and cooling and why.
 
Stay away from Geo Thermal! It is NOT nearly as good as it is HYPED up to be. I guarantee you will need to supplement it with something else (BOTH for hot and cold), and the system will not likely ever pay for itself. Plus, they are frought with all sorts of problems. (Leaks, line blockages, controller failures, pumps burning up, etc...) Some of my in-laws have a big Geotherm business, so I say this with some inside info you will not be likely to hear elsewhere.
 
We use an air exchange heat pump for heating/cooling with a wood stove for backup in the winter if the electricity goes out or if the temperature drops to low for the backup electric furnace to maintain the temperature. I'd say that over 10 years the heat pump has paid for itself over an electric furnace even with our electricity being inexpensive. And we have air conditioning in the summer. Ground exchange heat pumps have a higher efficiency and are not affected by the air temperature but the cost is several times the air exchange units. If you have dependable electricity, I'd suggest a heat pump with backup wood or propane. There are through the wall heat pump systems for home that do not require the duct work.
 
Some pretty efficient wood burners out there. My wifes Uncle in KY has a SS woodburning furnace outside his home..runs the heated air underground to their two[2]story custom log home.

We ran a wood burning stove[Earth Stove] in our two(2) story TN home...did fine. A conscious decision on our part NOT to use the two(2) propane furnaces due to high fuel costs.

20 years ago wood was cheap and plentiful in West TN and the KY Uncle has the the trees, several great chainsaws and a couple of husky sons in law. A couple of Central Ohio friends were not enamoured of their heat pumps in very cold weather and several had supplemental oil furnaces.

Now in FL I put a blanket on top of the sheet.
 
Thanks for the replys. Please keep em coming. Had a quote back in 07 for heat pump. 20k. said I needed two units because of the size of the house. I have burned wood for years, and still am. Just looking for something more effecient so that I can burn wood if I feel like it, instead of feeling like I have to for monetary reasons. I am sure the day will come, that I am not able to do the work for wood. Probably going to be about the same as were you are from smiley. hvac company supposed to give me a price tomorrow. Thanks
 
boring said:
Thanks for the replys. Please keep em coming. Had a quote back in 07 for heat pump. 20k. said I needed two units because of the size of the house. I have burned wood for years, and still am. Just looking for something more effecient so that I can burn wood if I feel like it, instead of feeling like I have to for monetary reasons. I am sure the day will come, that I am not able to do the work for wood. Probably going to be about the same as were you are from smiley. hvac company supposed to give me a price tomorrow. Thanks
Click to expand...

Did that 20k include all the duct work? A basic single stage 4 ton air exchange unit should cost less than 10k with some duct work thrown in. You might have to bring in an additional 100 A circuit to you house to power the unit.
 
Yes it did include duct work. Half the house is already on the current/old furnace duct work. Haven't heard from the hvac place. I guess I will have to call them. If my furnace was working I would be much more patient. Please keep the replys coming. Thanks Bot.
 
SpyderPhreak is correct. Geo-thermal's performance is hyped. You will get between 2.8 COP to 3.3 COP, depending on closed or open loops, for your region. That means 280 to 330% efficiency. Your cost of electricity should play a part in that decision, also.

The very first thing you should do, is improve the thermal performance of your home's shell. Weatherize first, and decrease the btu demand. And then you can size your new heating system properly. Best bang for the buck is weatherizing. HOWEVER, since I just realized you said your furnace crapped out, I realize you have to do that first.

If you already have the distribution in place (ductwork), I strongly recommend a highly efficient condensing Lp/gas furnace. The new ones have annual efficiencies of 96% or even higher! Look for the yellow label and the AFUE rating. (annual fuel utilization efficiency)
 
If you are not interested in Air Conditioning look at just installing a pair of high efficiency gas furnaces. This will save you having to buy two outdoor units and a heap of electrical supply parts and labor. They have models that remove so much heat from the gas that they have PVC flues and condense water in the exhaust gasses. Whatever you do stop using the electric baseboard, it's the least efficient type of heat, bar none. The units could be installed in such a way that AC coils could be added later with little additional labor.
 
Get yourself a new high efficiency gas or propane furnace if gas is unavailable in your area. Tear out the electric baseboard heaters as they have become dinosaurs in the heating/airconditioning industry, as they are cost prohibitive when compared to the new gas furnace technology today. In many places electric heat is considered non standard heating by todays codes. Nearly all gas furnaces operate in the area of about 96% efficiency and vent out the wall using plastic sewer pipe. The exhaust from these new furnaces is little more than moist air like your breath.

If your furnace was really old, then expect a huge drop in your heating bill when you install one of these new gas furnaces. You will also save money on the electriciy that runs the fan, and it will likely run quieter too.
 
Google your electric baseboard units. That industry has been absolutely plagued with safety issues and recalls. There are good, safe units out there, but there are also a lot of dangerous ones still in-service.
 
I've got geothermal and it works great. We don't get bone chilling cold here but the Summers are very hot. The home next door has it also and are very happy with it. Our unit is close to 10 years old with no issues. We have a 2500 sq ft home plus a 700 sq ft apartment that my FIL lives in. During July, never under 100 during the day, our electric bill was $225.00, last month $109.00.

The house is 2x6 construction with e-glass windows, I'm sure that helps.

Win
 
If you still have a functional AC condenser unit, just go propane - it'll take several years to recoup the cost of geothermal unless you have a pond/permanent cistern next to the house available to use as your heat sink.
heat pump with propane backup is also a good way to go if your summers aren't too hot and you need a new AC unit.
if they tie into the existing ductwork, cost shouldn't be too bad. If you're wanting to expand the ductwork into the rest of the house, be prepared to spend some $$.

and of course, adding insulation or just a house wrap to seal things up will go a long ways to saving $$ over time.
 
Just have a window ac unit, it isn't big enough for the house. So, looking to incorporate cooling as well. seems like a waste to not add the heating and cooling so it goes to the entire house.
 
well, looks like I am going geo. What loop is best and why, horizontal or vertical?
 
vertical is a lot like drilling a well, so it's good if you don't have a lot of land to run a horizontal loop in. It's REALLY good if you have a high water table and no rock layers in the area. Horizontal is usually cheaper because it can be dug with a trencher, unless you have a lot of rock close to the surface -- it just takes space. (similar to running laterals for a septic system)
If you have a pond or large cistern close by that never freezes, that's possibly your best bet.
 
Thanks for the responses 1066vic. hvac says horizontal is so very close to same effecientcy that it is not worth the extra 2 grand that it would cost to drill down. The pipes are buried at 5 feet. The top loop coming back would be closer to 4 feet. The frost level here is about 32 inches. doesnt seem like alot of space for the pipes to soak up heat. Drilling several loops down, they go about 100ft. It seems to me that nothing above ground will effect the loops going down. People say that with the horizontal, the ground on top of the loop if frozen quicker/longer than the rest of the ground. I would think that the pipes are looking for more heat in that direction. any thoughts on that. I have enough ground to do a loop, but I don't know if I want to never beable to use that section for anything else.
 
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