Gerber LMF II VS Rat 4

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,415
I own the Gerber LMF II Foilage green knife. It is a tuff knife and I have used it for things such as cutting beef for grilling, choped branches for kindling, etc... How does the Rat 4 compare with it, other than the obvious blade length. I have had my eye on the Rat 4 for some time but a just wondering if what I got now compares to the R4.
 
The RC-4 will be a superior cutter to the LMF no doubts about that. It is thinner in stock, but if you could damage 3/16" 1095 steel then I can't understand what is you do with your knives. The RC-4 is my goto survival blade. Its the one I count one when things look dire. Its my back-up form my thinner, better cutter blades.
 
I would stay away from the LMF II and choose either RC4, Fallkniven S1 or Bark River Bravo-1.
The LMF II might look cool but the featues on it doesnt make it a really good bushcraft/survival knife. Yes it might be a good pry and destroy "combat" survival knife with lots of "military" features, but something to bring along in the woods...no.

There are three things that I really dont like with the LMF II
The sheath: too bulky and holds the knife FAR to hard. Mine has already generated five stitches on a guys finger. Loose all the Molle gadgets and the "railing", then it might be better.
The handle: the huge butt end does not connect with the blade, rendering it useless if you want to pound the blade into something. It is also a big clump of frozen steel when it is sub zero.
The blade: serrations, why?

So, when Gerber makes a LMF II with a slimmer sheath, a flat butt end that is a part of the blade and no serrations, then I will use it.
 
The LMF II is a hell of a knife. My wife has an orginal LMF and it has serve her well for 19 years now. For someone that is use to and likes the feel of it, it is a fine blade. I know several people that are experienced woodsmen, that carry the LMF II happily.

The RAT RC4 is designed as a survival/bushcraft blade and excels at that role. Tough as nails. It also is available with serrations or plain blade (I prefer a plain blade for the woods). The sheath system is far more simply then the LMF, of course there is no reason why you couldn't put the LMF in a simple leather sheath from JRE or any number of makers. The RC-4 has no upper guard on it, giving you great control doing fine work, or so the thoughts on that go.

Both knives are a good choice, but for me the RC-4 wins out for comfort and simple design. I also dont like the serrations on any fixed blade. You really can't go wrong buying ANY blade from RAT Cutley.
 
I carry the LMF II because its a very serious knife with lots of useful features. The 12C27 Sandvick steel is tough as nails , sharpens well, and i have not seen any rust on it after 2 years. The LMF II is over biult as is the sheath, if i was in "dire straits" (not the band) i would be hoping i had this knife with me. Not to metion that its $50-$60 less expensive than the RAT.

I have nothing against RAT knives, they seem pretty cool and hope to get one one day. However, im not all that enthused about the 1095 for two reasons, 1. it rusts easily, even with a protective coating, in use the coating is removed easily. and 2. it seems to be over priced in most knives that use it.

Heres a really good endorsement article and reveiw of the LMF II:

Link: http://www.policeone.com/police-products/duty-gear/knives/press-releases/120430/

Case Study: New Gerber LMF II Tactical Knife Proves Versatile Ally in the Field
By Bob Galvin

No one will argue that a good quality knife must be standard equipment in military or tactical situations. The question becomes one of how well the knife being used can multi-task. Today's tactical knife isn't just a tool, but really an extension of its user. The knife must perform a variety of tasks superbly, efficiently and quickly. After all, time and human life are precious in the tactical world.

This partly explains why the new LMF 2 Infantry Knife from Gerber Legendary Blades (Portland, Oregon) was designed. The bigger reason was that two years ago the U.S. Army came to Gerber asking for a "pilot's knife" to be made. Specifically, the Army wanted a survival knife for use among pilots involved in a helicopter crash. Up until then, existing survival knives, and even their sheaths, just weren't performing. To ensure that the new knife would perform, the Army issued a daunting list of 30 design criteria to be met for what it calls the "ASEK" (Aircrew Survival & Egress Knife). And, of course, the knife had to be affordable for any GI using it.

Heavy Buttcap Pierces Glass, Skulls; Is a Hammer

What the Army got was a knife that not only met its design criteria, but that is a durable, all-purpose tactical knife that makes survival a priority above all. Several design features make the LMF 2 a particularly staunch knife. The 5-inch stainless steel blade has a 3/16" thickness, and a Rockwell Hardness C Scale rating of 58. The blade also has a high length-of-arc to provide an increased cutting edge. As for the LMF 2's intended purpose of providing quick egress in a downed helicopter situation, there are holes drilled through the blade and handle to allow lashing a spear. But the more noticeable "egress" design feature of this knife is the unique buttcap. It is the heavy end of the knife, made of stainless steel, and, with a point at its end, capable of breaking helicopter Plexiglass or even skulls. Also, the buttcap is physically separated from the knife's tang by handle substrate material. This design gives the buttcap terrific shock absorption when it's used as a hammer and electrically isolates the blade from the buttcap.

Still another bonus with the LMF 2 knife is a removable and replaceable carbide sharpener built right into the sheath. The sheath itself is easily detachable from the vest plate and can be used as a handle when using the buttcap to hammer.

Blade Sharpness Withstands Abuse

Just how important these performance features are for Gerber's new tactical knife can be seen in comments from soldiers using the LMF 2. A retired SEAL, who is presently an independent contractor in Iraq, for example, gave high marks to the new knife after he had several tactical officers conduct rigorous testing. "One classic story is of a sniper team in Iraq that used the knife to knock a hole through a solid brick wall to create a shooting lane to the intended target," the SEAL said. "While the job took a while to complete, using both ends of the weapon, minor damage to the blade incurred that was quickly fixed by the sharpener on the blade's sheath."

The LMF 2's buttcap also was put through its paces during this trial test. "The skull crusher is a favorite for every use, including minimum non-lethal force control of prisoners (arm bars or pressure holds), breaching vehicle windows and basic locks, and, of course, lethal hand-to-hand combat," the SEAL continued. He added that the knife's rubber-coated hand grip creates a secure hold on the blade during the worst conditions.

Blade durability was a highlight of the LMF 2's tour of duty so far in Iraq. "It (the blade) needed hardly any maintenance, and stayed sharp without having to take time out of my day to sharpen it," the SEAL reveals. Such accolades don't get any better when you consider that the LMF 2 was deployed in more than 60 training exercises and 130 world combat missions. Sometimes, a knife can be the best tool or weapon, if not the only one, a soldier has at a given moment. Perhaps the SEAL sums it up best: "I would hate to be on E&E without my LMF 2."

Bob Galvin is a Portland, Oregon freelance writer, based in Portland, Oregon, who writes about various law enforcement/tactical/military tools and technologies, and their applications. END

--This is what convinced me . -----Eric
 
Personally, my experience has been that 1095 and the other "high carbon" steels are very overrated! Face it, they are trying to meet a price point with this steel, plain and simple. There is some prejudice against "stainess" out there, but it is based on "old school" thinking from past generations when stainless didn't have the degree of development that it has today.

As for the LMF II, I picked one up the other day just to see what it is all about. That's one huge chunk of steel there! If I had to hack my way out of a downed aircraft, it would be an excellent choice.

But, out in the woods I would go with something from Fallkniven in preference to anything else out there.....
 
Last edited:
RC-4. No contest. I hope you don't take what I'm about to say with any disrespect. I certainly don't mean any. It seems like you have already made your mind up that the LMF II is the way to go. No here's why it isn't.

The LMF II has a ton of serration on the blade. That is terrific if you're always having to cut webbing and rope. If not, then you just sacrificed half of your blade, the half used for fine work, for a chore that almost never exists unless you're some sort of rescue specialist or you work in the webbing, straps, and rope section of the hardware store. The RC-4 is available in a partially serrated blade, which doesn't have near the same amount of cutting edge sacrificed for the serrations, or in a non-serrated version, which unless your job description is one of the above, is not necessary.

The blade is really heavy and thick. That's great if you're using your knife as a pry bar more than a cutting tool. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of knives that will benefit from that extra heft. Longer knives meant for chopping tend to have thicker blades to add to the rigidity of the blade under the stressful conditions of being a chopper and it also adds a lot of swinging weight and inertia. What a thickness does on a shorter blade is add to useless weight and take away cutting capability. Thickness is great for a big, long, camp knife. Not one this size. The RC-4 has, in my opinion, the perfect thickness. It's thick enough to be a hardcore use blade, pry notches out of wood and such, yet is still thin enough to be a very efficient cutting blade.

The LMF II has a glass breaker/ skull cracker/ hammer pommel. I have yet to have the need to crack a skull. Even if I were in a situation where cracking a skull was necessary, I'd be using a bullet and not my knife. I never use my knife as a hammer, even if it has an area designed for it. The fact is, I can use a big stick or rock to do the same work my hammering capable knife could do in much less time. My relatively light knife, doesn't have the weight, handle length, or size of striking area that I want out of a hammer or otherwise blunt object. As far as breaking glass, the tip of my blade will do just as good of a job breaking temperred glass as any pommel glass breaker and it also keeps my hand a little further away from the breaking glass. What's the worst thats going to happen? I blunt the tip of my blade. Not a big deal with the RC-4. See the warranty section of this comparison to see why.

The Gerber LMF II is a little less likely to rust. The RAT Cutlery knife will lose a lot of its coating under hard use and is likely to rust on areas not being used that are exposed. Here's the real world of it. Areas on your knife where the coating is missing are bare because it's being used. A little rust doesn't mean anything on a hard use knife. It's not hard to knock the rust off. Just use the knife. A knife that gets regular use will never have a significant amount of rust on it. I use my RC-4 for everything from daily work to preparing and eating my dinner. I have yet to get any rust on it that doesn't come right off the next time I use it.

Gerber has a standard big company warranty. The knife is free from defect for however long and if the knife is dmaged or breaks due to a flaw in manufacturing, it will be fixed or replaced. There's also a lot of other talk about stipulations and circumstances.

RAT Cutlery has a "no questions asked" warranty that is good FOREVER! If you ever mess that knife up and don't think it can serve all of its purposes anymore, send it to them and they'll either fix the tip you blunted whilst saving babies from the burning car or replace your knife that you broke prying the doors of an elevator open to rescue a pregnant woman. That kind of warranty and trust in a company is worth my extra $50.

So to sum up, the RC-4 is a real world knife that is all usefull with no gimmics or specialized tools or grinding. It's a workhorse that is meant to be abused.
 
If I had to hack my way out of a downed aircraft, it would be an excellent choice.

EXACTLY! If I had to cut my way out of tank wreckage, I'd want the LMF. Otherwise, give me the RC-4 so I can do fine cutting work on everyday tasks.
 
Another thing about the LMF II is that it is heavy like a brick! Not the hot ticket for light and fast woods travel.

Maybe on the streets of Baghdad.......
 
Thanks for the feed back guys, I have had the LMF for about a year now. I like it but it is kind of bulky. I was wanting to know if it was comparable to the Rat4, and if it was, which I guess its not, then I wouldnt get the Rat4. But since it isnt the same I will just have to cough up a few extra bcks and get me a Rat4. The LMF is going to be riding in my tool box for hard labor, and the Rat4 will be my new camping/everything else fix blade. Thanks.
-frank
 
Thanks for the feed back guys, I have had the LMF for about a year now. I like it but it is kind of bulky. I was wanting to know if it was comparable to the Rat4, and if it was, which I guess its not, then I wouldnt get the Rat4. But since it isnt the same I will just have to cough up a few extra bcks and get me a Rat4. The LMF is going to be riding in my tool box for hard labor, and the Rat4 will be my new camping/everything else fix blade. Thanks.
-frank

You have made a wise decision. Enjoy that new RAT. Mine hasn't left my belt since I got it.
 
And just to be clear this is the RAT Cutlery RC-4 being discussed and not Ontario's RAT.

I own the RC-4 .... It's a great knife which pretty much will meet / exceed all your needs.
 
I owned both the original LMF & LMFII both have been traded or sold . the AD for the LMFII is good if you think your John Rambo but if it is wood detail basic camping or hiking your wasting your time packing the LMFII... it is a good starter knife but half the blade is serrations,the weight,useless in the woods,no need for a selt belt cutter outdoors,I could see the Gerber making the Ad for General Aviation personal/survival kits but nothing more...
My choice is the RC4 hands down.... full PE blade thinner stock for Bushcraft skills and I also own the RC4 SE version and the Serrations do not take up alot of blade space,with the diameter of the Serration works perfect for making fuzz sticks or striking the Army model Firesteel without removing the coating from the spine or risking damaging the PE section.Plus RC makes one of the best Sheath out in the market today !
IMG_1334.jpg
 
By the way, nice avatar skater trash. ;)

That was my life when I was younger, Loved it. I hope my kids do it too. I ran accross the avatar on the net and it brought back some of my best childhood memories back.

texastonydobbs That color looks awesome on that RC-4. How do you like it?
 
T

texastonydobbs That color looks awesome on that RC-4. How do you like it?

I love it ,the color scheme was an idea that I pushed for pretty hard and Jeff made it Reality, in the RAT Cutlery forum it maybe called the TTO 3 or 4 as a joke because I pushed so hard for this color scheme.:D I also have the Orange RC3 as well...
 
I never knew 1095 wasn't a good woods blade material. My dad's old WWII KaBar didn't know it either - it was my 'camping knife' for years. I carried an SAK or a Buck 110 or 301, too - but - that 1095 was fine. Easy to re-edge, too. Of course, since my 'enlightenment', ie, finding all of these blade forums, I have acquired quite the ecclectic mix of knives for bushcrafting - with my favorites being from BRK&T - in carbon steel (A-2).

There is an RC-4 in my future... but there has been an LMF II in my collection since June... 'Father's Day', to be exact. It was a gift from my older son. Beat the snot out of a tie, even if I haven't gotten it very dirty thus far. If 'lost in the woods', I'd take the KaBar... not really, probably the B R 'Gameskeeper' - my favorite 'bushcraft' knife thus far. Okay, maybe the 'Fox River'... it'd be a Barkie I have, that's for sure. I haven't tried an RC-4... yet...

Stainz
 
The RC-4 is made of 1095 carbon steel. Don't think anyone mentioned it not being a good woods blade material :confused:
 
Back
Top