German knife company Böker knocks off Becker handles...

They do lots of collabs with approval of the original maker. But for these knives the original maker is mentioned in the text or even on the blade.
 
I seriously doubt any real legal action could take place. It is almost impossible to patent a shape.

And if Boker can't legally make a Becker shaped scale, neither can all those custom handle makers you all love so much.
 
RX-79G said:
I seriously doubt any real legal action could take place. It is almost impossible to patent a shape.

And if Boker can't legally make a Becker shaped scale, neither can all those custom handle makers you all love so much.
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99.9999% of the time those custom handle makers have permission, and they're made of different materials and all have a certain custom flair to them. It's significantly different than Boker making an exact copy of the Becker handles for a knife that isn't a Becker.
 
Noswad0208 said:
99.9999% of the time those custom handle makers have permission, and they're made of different materials and all have a certain custom flair to them. It's significantly different than Boker making an exact copy of the Becker handles for a knife that isn't a Becker.
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Hey, I'm not defending Boker. I think it is lame of them to copy the Becker handle. I'm just saying that there isn't much to do about it, legally.

I few emails to Boker by knife buying consumers would likely have the largest effect. That and Kabar management reaching out to Boker management. Boker probably has a few designs they don't want Kabar to "borrow" either.
 
RX-79G said:
Hey, I'm not defending Boker. I think it is lame of them to copy the Becker handle. I'm just saying that there isn't much to do about it, legally.

I few emails to Boker by knife buying consumers would likely have the largest effect. That and Kabar management reaching out to Boker management.
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I know what you mean.

RX-79G said:
Boker probably has a few designs they don't want Kabar to "borrow" either.
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I like the way you think. :D
 
RX-79G said:
I seriously doubt any real legal action could take place. It is almost impossible to patent a shape.

And if Boker can't legally make a Becker shaped scale, neither can all those custom handle makers you all love so much.
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I believe this would fall under trademark law, not patent, at least in the US.

Interesting point about the custom handle scales. Normally I only think about the knife profile, which then gets handles stuck onto. Of course it was only recently that you could buy replacement scales of ANY kind from Ka-bar (micarta), and only in the last week that these other factory replacements showed up. Is it the knife that defines the shape or the scales themselves? Or both? (that's rhetorical, I REALLY don't want to over-complicate this)
 
Trabireiter said:
magnum and böker plus are all of Chinese/asian origin. So böker did not copy anything but they might have chosen a Chinese design which is a copy of something else.
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Strictly curious, where are Magum and Boker Plus made other than China?
 
i seem to recall that Boker got some Camillus handles in auction or such, and used those. actual real handles.

then they started making copies...

i'll have to chase some links to recall certain details... perhaps Ethan can chime in. he's good at that :}

Camillus (acme) was under some impression also if i recall, that they had some design rights to certain things Becker or something, but i think that got taken care of as well

there was also those infamous chinese copies of the BK6, that was cool ;)

me? i'd love to get some of the clones, for display.

you haven't arrived until someone blatantly copies your shit :D
 
daizee said:
I believe this would fall under trademark law, not patent, at least in the US.

Interesting point about the custom handle scales. Normally I only think about the knife profile, which then gets handles stuck onto. Of course it was only recently that you could buy replacement scales of ANY kind from Ka-bar (micarta), and only in the last week that these other factory replacements showed up. Is it the knife that defines the shape or the scales themselves? Or both? (that's rhetorical, I REALLY don't want to over-complicate this)
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Except you can't trademark a shape. Trademarks are for brand text and logo, not the shape of a car hood or a knife blade.
 
RX-79G said:
Except you can't trademark a shape. Trademarks are for brand text and logo, not the shape of a car hood or a knife blade.
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But you can copyright or patent the design of a shape.

Can Chevy make a truck in the shape of an F150?

If Emerson copyrighted/patented the design of the 'wave' blade, the shape of that blade would be protected as part of the design.

If EB copyrighted/patented the design of those handles, their shape would be protected as part of the design.
 
TravisH said:
But you can copyright or patent the design of a shape.

Can Chevy make a truck in the shape of an F150?

If Emerson copyrighted/patented the design of the 'wave' blade, the shape of that blade would be protected as part of the design.

If EB copyrighted/patented the design of those handles, their shape would be protected as part of the design.
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Maybe. But the design has to have some unique, aesthetic value above its utility, Mr. Becker would have to have applied and received such a copyright, and it would have to be less than 14 years old. I doubt any of that happened.

As with all the knife stuff, almost none of it is able to be protected. You can protect a new mechanism with a patent - Axis lock. And you can protect the trade mark "Axis lock". But a blade or handle shape are going to be immensely difficult to receive a patent or copyright on unless it has some sort of obviously artistic feature to it that is recognizably not utilitarian like the anodized, machined designs CRK does on the fancier Sabenzas. I think Ford would have a hard time making that argument about a boring hood, and Kabar an even harder time with a black fixed blade knife handle.

Emerson could have patented the Wave hook itself - if the patent office accepted it. The overall blade shape - probably not. Copyrights aren't for utility, and the wave isn't aesthetic or artisitic in nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_design_right
 
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It wasn't long ago on this forum that someone was looking to duplicate the Becker handles and mold them out of rubber, and I believe that they got shut down by kabar...
I remember it being mentioned in the thread awhile back when we were trying to figure out how to get zytel handles in different colors lol

I think that they can simply get away with it because they are not selling in the USA.

I love Becker blades of course, but I think one of the most iconic pieces of any Becker is the scale shape.
 
That "Magnum Machete" wasn't the only one

They also list a "Magnum Camp" knife ("sold out")
https://www.boker.de/fahrtenmesser/magnum/outdoormesser/02GL719.html

and a "Magnum Camp Lite" (also "sold out")
https://www.boker.de/fahrtenmesser/magnum/outdoormesser/02GL719.html

also saw one, the "Street Worker", that looks suspiciously like Muela's "Storm" and "Typhoon"
https://www.boker.de/fahrtenmesser/magnum/outdoormesser/02MB522.html

Many of their other "Magnum" line products look like copies of US and Spanish brand knives.
 
No Bokers for me. I pretty much stopped buying SOG knives after they copied the Spyderco hole.
 
intellectual property rights are such a chore

Boker has/had a chain of custody taint, which probably made it easier to have a gentleman's agreement with Boker about USA rights/etc

we pretty much know they aren't going to sell a lot of that junk to the rest of the world, but the US market is pretty good.

now intellectual property on a handle? it has history, and reasons, and stuff.

a hole? well, Spyderco pulled it off. it's a Signature thing. some other companies claim similar rights.

they are not often fought out in court though
 
Marginally off topic here, but did you know the correct pronunciation of Böker is 'berker'? Kinda sounds like someone with a thick german accent trying to say Becker. HAHAHAHAhaha ha ha..... ahem. Ok, I'll go back to my corner now. Has anyone seen my dunce hat?
 
BeeKayNutCase said:
Marginally off topic here, but did you know the correct pronunciation of Böker is 'berker'? Kinda sounds like someone with a thick german accent trying to say Becker. HAHAHAHAhaha ha ha..... ahem. Ok, I'll go back to my corner now. Has anyone seen my dunce hat?
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Interesting, always good to know the finer detail, thanks.
 
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