Getting started - Lots of Questions

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knife_addict

Joined
Dec 29, 2008
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17
Hi my name is Charles, I'm 16 years old and live in Pleasant Grove, Utah. I have recently decided that I would like to try my hand at making kinves. My current hobbies include camping, off roading, and hiking so I spend alot of time around knives and just recently got the idea that I could probably make my own knives instead of sending money to China to get something that says Stainless and is full of lead. So now that you know a little about me I have a ton of questions for you guys. So here we go:
1. I have an old set of leaf springs that I pulled out of a '79 Jeep Cherokee, would these be a good source of steel if straightened out?
2. If not then what would be a good alloy to start with?
3. Can someone explain in detail the heat treating process in detail, with specific temperatures and the like?
I have read a few guides but they are all really vague about these details, my dad is also interested in making knives.
 
Hello, and welcome to the forums.

The first thing to do is read all the stickies at the top of this forum. There is a wealth of info for new makers.

The second thing is to bookmark this search engine:
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
It is a good search tool for finding posts on subjects like heat treatment,tools, and most of the,"I'm interested in making knives" questions.

One of the best thing to do is Read,Read, Read. I know that sounds a lot like school, but it is a real part of learning knifemaking.There is a good reading list in the stickies. Also, check out your public library. Many have some great books on blacksmithing and knifemaking.

Try to find a smith in your area and visit with him/her. One hour of shop time will make two days of reading suddenly clear (but you still need to read first).

Again, welcome. Stick around and you'll get some great info and advise here.

Stacy
 
Like Stacy said. Read and learn. Knowledge is power and practice brings it all together. You will learn a lot here from these guys. They are great.
 
Welcome. Stacy has it, read all you can. Ask a lot of ?'s. Practice a lot.
This journey you have started has no end.
 
Welcome to the madness, friend! Good advice so far. Read up on the craft. As for the jeep springs, see if you can find out what they're made of. Not all spring steel is the same. And for heat treating, every steel has its specific needs (temps, soaks, quench, quench medium, etc). For that reason, most makers will suggest to work with a known steel. For forging (and stock removal), 1084 is an excellent choice for a beginner. You can use your jeep spring, but unless you know what steel you're working with, you will have to experiment with heat treating to find the right combo that works best for the steel. An excellent way to learn things, no doubt. Do some searches for mystery steel heat treat or something like that. If you don't find what you need while reading and searching, do feel free to post your questions here. There are some amazing makers here who have helped me learn more about knives than from any other source.

Again, welcome and have fun!

--nathan
 
Welcome to the forums. I'm sure you and your dad will find all of the help and info needed here. Great bunch of folks. Maybe on the next trip to Moab we can wheel together. Its been a while!:D
 
Thanks Stacy, Ive been reading around, does anyone know of a bladesmith in Utah County? Also thanks to Nathan, I'll look around for some 1084 steel.
 
Plesant Grove? doesnt JT live in Provo? If so there is a great maker near you. Mabey he will post and give you some tips.
 
I was just thinking of JT in Provo. Not to speak for Jared, but he might be glad to show you a thing or two.

--nathan
 
Does JT have a shop or something besides his house where I could talk to him? Can anyone give me a link to a how to on the heat treat process for 1084 steel, I've been looking but I cant seem to find anything.
 
Okay I found a decent heat treat guide, thanks. Also the reason I wanted to know if JT had a shop was that I don't think my parents would let me go to his house since they don't know him, and I really would just like to ask questions to someone in person rather than over the internet. But thanks for all the help I think I'm ready to go out and buy some metal and some wood, and try this whole thing out.
 
Setup your account to allow emails or PM's and then contact me.

I can point you towards all kinds of info
 
Welcome to BladeForums Charles.
Get your father to work /surf with you, the learning experience will give you a great foundation for sharing time, also if he's interested and working on things, he may be willing to take you to visit bladesmiths, go to hammer-ins, and he may even help procure tools, also that way you can learn from each other's mistakes.
just a thought. Oh yes, Stacy's got good advice. As usual.

-page
 
Okay, one last question: In all of the guides that I can find it just says to heat the metal until it is no longer magnetized, is there a specific temperature to bring it up to and people just say that because its a good way to tell with out having the proper tools to measure temperature or do people actually just not know the temperature that it happens at? I ask because I have access to an infared thermometer so I can measure the temperature without having to touch the metal, and I figure that measuring it has to be more precise than a magnet.
 
Like others have said read and then pratice and from there knifemaking will develop.

Try getting some annealed bar stock from one of the knifemaker supply outlets. From these you can also get handle material and cutlery rivetts and other things to get the hobby moving forward.

As for heat treatment, yes you can do it yourself with hand torches with some care and a bit of luck, or send the blades out for heat treat.

Patience, both with doing the work, and waiting for materials to arrive, is as important as the piece of steel for making the knife.
 
A magnet tells you the curie point of iron. This is around 1414F. Many infrared heat guns won't even register temps this high. Some of the most simple carbon steels (1084 comes to mind) will have their critical temperature (must be reached in order to harden) fairly close that temperature. Because it's one of the most simple carbon steels, 1084 can be heated to just above non-magnetic (curie point) and then quenched without any real hold at temperature. Other steels require you to keep them at accurate temperature in order to allow all the alloying elements to enter solution. This is important, because if you are just using a home built forge to get your heat, it will likely be poorly controlled for temperature and you can easily overheat the steel if you're not careful. Since 1084 doesn't require a long soak time, you don't have to worry much about overheating. Using a magnet will get you in the ball park and then you quench. O-1 steel requires temps around 1475 for a good 10-20 minute soak, and stainless steels such as ATS34 and 154CM require temps around 1950 for upwards of 45 minutes.

There are things called Tempil sticks which melt at certain temperature that can get you in the ball park if you don't have anything else. Also, you can fairly cheaply set up a k-type thermocouple and pyrometer to measure the temperature inside your forge or heat treating apparatus. Most high temp gun type thermometers are fairly expensive, so you'll have to see what your gun is rated to. A quick search brought up the most readily available thermometers rated to max temps of 400 to 1000F. A search for high temp thermometers brought up some rated to 1800+F but these cost around $200.

--nathan
 
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