Getting tired of not being able to sharpen well

jfindon

jfindon

Joined
Dec 12, 2006
Messages
967
I couldn't do anything with the Sharpmaker, so I went and bought a KME sharpener. Now, I would think it's impossible to use this thing improperly, but I still can't get my knives that sharp. Sure, they shave (barely) but they're never as sharp as they are out of the box.

For example, still testing it with my crappy Gerber Paraframe, the edge wouldn't even catch on my nail. I put the coarse stone on and went back and forth to just reprofile. Then I used sharpening strokes from tip to heel, then switched to the medium stone, then fine. I usually do a few sets of 20 strokes on each side, then 10 strokes, then 5, and then 1. For some reason it's like the finer I go with the stones the duller I make the knife. I got it biting my nail pretty well after the medium, but the fine totally dulled it and I can't even shave with it.

What the hell am I doing wrong all the time? I mean how can I possibly mess up a sharpener that keeps a perfect angle? The edge looks nice, it's just not sharp at all.
 
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Find a professional and ask him to show you how to sharpen it correctly. I just bought a Sharpmaker and based on the treads its highly recommended. Are you using a strop at the end?
 
I'm not using a strop, I don't have any belts or an actual strop to use.

My point was this sharpener is supposed to be fool proof, and it's impossible to mess the angle up. I just don't understand why I still can't get edges that are at least as sharp as my Spyderco and Benchmade knives out of the box.
 
If you look closely at the edge you will probably find your problem. When using a guided systems you should be getting a shaving edge with your coarse stone and if not then that's a start of the problem. Watching your bevel throughout the process is very important, you can't just grind with a set number of strokes and hope for the best. Getting duller with a finer stone is usually caused by not enough work with the previous stone or a edge that was not properly formed to begin with.

Start over but don't count your strokes, let the edge tell you what to do. Check your edge often, watch the scratch pattern, and use a lot lighter pressure as you finish with each stone.
 
What am I looking out for on the bevel? The only thing I know to check for is the burr.

I don't know what you mean by scratch pattern either, what do I need to watch out for?
 
Each stone will create a different size scratch, this scratch should flow from shoulder to edge down the length of the blade creating a scratch pattern. Each progressively finer stone will create a smaller scratch and must be used long enough to "equal out" or remove the previous scratch. Your looking for the burr to disappear or nearly disappear with the completion of each stone, yes every stone will create its own burr.

Look really close at the edge under bright light, do you see small burrs? do you see very small points where it looks as if the scratch stops short? what's the grit of your coarsest stone and what type of abrasive is it? how sharp is your edge after your starting stone and what's the state of the burr?
 
Greetings Jfindon: If your bevel looks good but the edge is not sharp enough, the problem is likely that you are not reaching the extreme cutting edge. As Knifenut1013 wisely stated FORGET COUNTING STROKES. When establishing a new edge or grind angle, SPEED is not your friend, precision and consistency are. Doing it correctly the first time will take a LEAST 3 times longer than you would expect. Resign yourself to this. Judging by the number of posts on the subject your problem is not uncommon. You may wish to read the below linked thread in it's entirety and follow the suggestion. The original poster was experiencing the same problem when using either a Sharpmaker, a Lansky or an EdgePro. As the KME sharpener is a guided rod system, most of what is applicable to a Lansky sharpener is applicable to you. It is relatively short. If you have PATIENCE and follow the advice given, your edges will improve. OldDude1

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=744507
 
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jfindon said:
For example, still testing it with my crappy Gerber Paraframe, the edge wouldn't even catch on my nail.
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Don't use your Gerber Paraframe to test whether you are sharpening correctly or not. A while ago there was a thread titled something like "the worst knife ever made" and the Paraframe got at least four votes. The heat treatment and/or steel is so horrible that it simply will NOT take a decent edge.

If you are having trouble sharpening quality knives such as Spydercos/Kershaws/ect., then follow the advice that others on this thread have mentioned. But you probably won't be able to get the Paraframe sharp no matter what you do.
 
Caffeinepirate said:
Don't use your Gerber Paraframe to test whether you are sharpening correctly or not. A while ago there was a thread titled something like "the worst knife ever made" and the Paraframe got at least four votes. The heat treatment and/or steel is so horrible that it simply will NOT take a decent edge.

If you are having trouble sharpening quality knives such as Spydercos/Kershaws/ect., then follow the advice that others on this thread have mentioned. But you probably won't be able to get the Paraframe sharp no matter what you do.
Click to expand...

My son bought me a Paraframe a few Christmases past and I have been able to get a hair whittling edge out of it with a Sharpmaker. So there are no absolutes.
 
A Paraframe will get pretty sharp but it won't hold the edge long. I gave mine away. Life is too short to have to deal with a mediocre knife.

To the Op, the chances are your angles are not consistent from one grit to the next. Either you're not hitting the tip of your edge or you're rounding off the edge. Even on a Sharpmaker or something similar, you have to be very consistent with your strokes.

Like knifenut said, take a real close look at the edge. I suggest a handheld pocket microscope in the 100x magnification range. It's really cheap and it will tell you more about your sharpening skills than 10 internet forums put together. A sharpie to check the edge is also helpful.
 
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dsmegst said:
A Paraframe will get pretty sharp but it won't hold the edge long. I gave mine away. Life is too short to have to deal with a mediocre knife.
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My Paraframe won't get sharp no matter what I do.
 
I hold the top spot for being the worst at sharpening on Bladeforums.

But I got an Edge Pro, and now I look like a pro. I can slap a mirrored, scary sharp edge on a knife now. It is close to foolproof if you follow the directions. Its spendy, at over $200, but its well worth it if you are like me and can't sharpen worth a dang.
 
My grandfather showed me how to sharpen blades on cinderblocks, cardboard and 50 other "nontraditional sharpeners." His theory was that if it will dull the blade it will sharpen the blade.

I have only had trouble sharpening cheap metal and 420 stainless. If you have a good piece of metal, you should be able to put an edge on it fairly easily. A light touch works when nothing else does.
 
powernoodle said:
I hold the top spot for being the worst at sharpening on Bladeforums.

But I got an Edge Pro, and now I look like a pro. I can slap a mirrored, scary sharp edge on a knife now. It is close to foolproof if you follow the directions. Its spendy, at over $200, but its well worth it if you are like me and can't sharpen worth a dang.
Click to expand...

Correct
It will give you one of the closest chance of getting excellent results with the shortest learning curve.
But it still takes a bit to learn. You can't just hammer away at it and expect a sharp edge.
Looking at the Forums, there are people that never seem to get the hang of it.
Not many, but they are out there.
First to get a good shaving edge, it required for me to go all the way up to the 1000grit stone...then with a bit more experience I was able to achieve the same with a 600stone.
And now I can achieve the same hair shaving sharpness with a 320 stone and with ease.
 
Lots of good advice already posted. If you want to see the scratch pattern, color the edge with a Sharpie maker and then take one stroke on the stone and the scratch pattern should be clearly visible.
 
I shared your predicament. I dont have a sharpmaker. I have a fine diamond stone and three coarser ones that I picked up at a truckload sale for five dollars. I also have a ceramic rod gizmo with coarse and fine rods at two different angles.

I was having a tough time then someone here suggested that I remove the burr with light strokes at a little steeper angle, then go back to the more acute angle. Eureka. The best piece of advice I got for sharpening. Wish I could find that post.
 
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Found it. See if this helps. Pay attention to the fourth paragraph about deburring an edge.

Jeff Clark Jeff Clark is offline
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Posts: 6,037
The problem is with your sharpening technique, not with stainless steel. Carbon steel is more forgiving of mistakes. It makes everybody seem like a sharpening genius.

Burrs form when you remove more than the minimum amount of material to reach an edge. The burr is the remnant of the material that you thought you removed from the apex of your edge, but in reality it folded away from your hone as you worked. Even with a light touch you can get some burr, but using excessive honing pressure (particularly on a narrow honing surface like a ceramic rod) will cause a larger fraction of the edge to bend out of alignment. So first of all use light pressure as you approach the end of your honing process. Another thing that maximizes a burr is honing on one side at a time. As you get to the later phases of your honing be sure that you are honing on alternate sides of the edge on every stroke (left-side, right-side, left-side, right-side...).

A burr forms because your hone's abrasive particles are not shaving off little bits of the edge like a razor blade. The particles varie from rounded, to pointy, to flat-topped. They shave off some material, but they also have a tendency to simply plow through and bend over some of the blade material. If the blade is extremely brittle like glass it will microchip as you hone it. If the blade material is softer it will not chip, but it will tend to do some burr formation as soon as your edge gets thin. If your carbon steel knife is 58 or 60 RC hardness it will form a bit less burr than a stainless steel blade that is 56 or 58 RC. If your stainless steel has large chromium carbide grains in it those will tend to fold over rather than get cut.

{The sure way to debur an edge is to lightly hone edge-forwards at an angle that is significantly greater than your normal honing angle using an abrasive that cuts more than simply polishing. When I do most of my honing at 15 degrees I will bebur using clean medium-grit ceramic rods at 25 degrees. It only takes about 8 light strokes to do it (left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right). Then I go back to 15 degrees and restore my edge with a minimum number of strokes. If you go back and hone too much you will just create another burr.}

You may actually still have a burr on your carbon steel blades. Carbon steel is easy to push into alignment and it forms a fairly sturdy burr. For years I happily used burred carbon steel blades. They shaved great and I didn't notice that they dulled faster than they should have. For a kitchen knife you might be happy if you just pushed your burrs into alignment by a little light stroking on smooth ceramic rods or on a smooth steel. You could do the same thing if you sort of lightly hone a burred edge on the side of a glass. Remember to work on a soft cutting board in the kitchen.
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