Getting tired of not being able to sharpen well

There are only two things that people do wrong that prevents them from getting knives sharp. The first is that they fail to maintain a consistent angle throught the process. The other is that they fail to finish with one stone completely before going to the next. Your problem is likely the second one. You need to pay attention to the burr. it will tell you how you are doing. when you can turn the burr with a pressureless swipe in each direction, then it is time to go to the next stone. There are many ways to test the burr. Personally I just put the edge on my thumbnail and feel it. Any other way that works for you is fine. The burr will tell you how you are doing.
 
I just bought paper wheels and a 6 inch buffer..less than 100 bucks and I am in business..I did 15 knives last night in less than an hour..
I did all the wives kitchen knives plus a few of my own..small learning curve, but shorter than by doing it by hand..you will never worry about having hair popping edges again..I even did the serarated edge ones too..

I still have the diamond stones for when I am in the field.. but for at home it is spectacular..
 
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Thanks for the advice guys.

There are only two things that people do wrong that prevents them from getting knives sharp. The first is that they fail to maintain a consistent angle throught the process. The other is that they fail to finish with one stone completely before going to the next. Your problem is likely the second one. You need to pay attention to the burr. it will tell you how you are doing. when you can turn the burr with a pressureless swipe in each direction, then it is time to go to the next stone. There are many ways to test the burr. Personally I just put the edge on my thumbnail and feel it. Any other way that works for you is fine. The burr will tell you how you are doing.

It's definitely the second then, because I can't mess the angle up with the KME sharpener. I just got a nice burr on one side, and turned it over and worked up another nice burr on the other. I'm not sure what you mean in the bold statement above though...

EDIT: Ok, I just go it the sharpest I've had it with the coarse stone, it's easily shaving right now. Now's the time to switch to a finer stone, right?
 
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Thanks for the advice guys.



It's definitely the second then, because I can't mess the angle up with the KME sharpener. I just got a nice burr on one side, and turned it over and worked up another nice burr on the other. I'm not sure what you mean in the bold statement above though...

I'm pretty sure he's talking about thinning the burr (to the extent that it'll bend easily with one light pass of the stone), once it's been formed.

After you've initially formed a burr, begin thinning it by using progressively lighter strokes (i.e., pressureless swipe) and progressing to the next finer grit, to the extent that the burr will eventually get so thin that it will break off or otherwise disappear.
 
Oh, I thought you removed the burr for the most part with the first stone, then created another with the next and removed it, and so on.

Anyway, if the secret is getting a decent edge with the coarsest stone first before moving to the finer ones, Ive done that and I guess I'll experiment a bit and see how it goes. Once I "profile" the blade by using back and forth strokes rather than sharpening strokes I don't need the back and forth strokes anymore right? Just stick the the heel to tip strokes?
 
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Oh, I thought you removed the burr for the most part with the first stone, then created another with the next and removed it, and so on.

Anyway, if the secret is getting a decent edge with the coarsest stone first before moving to the finer ones, Ive done that and I guess I'll experiment a bit and see how it goes. Once I "profile" the blade by using back and forth strokes rather than sharpening strokes I don't need the back and forth strokes anymore right? Just stick the the tip to heel strokes?

Burr formation and it's removal is a gradual process. It won't necessarily be removed with just one stone. A burr should only be created ONCE. After that, it's all a matter of thinning & removing it.

Whatever 'type' of stroke you make (back/forth, tip-to-heel, etc.), it's much MORE important to focus on keeping a progressively LIGHTER touch as you go. This is how the high polish will be attained. The smoother the bevel becomes, the less pressure is needed to enhance the polish. Just maintain the angle, and frequently inspect the work (under magnification & bright light) as you go.
 
Burr formation and it's removal is a gradual process. It won't necessarily be removed with just one stone. A burr should only be created ONCE. After that, it's all a matter of thinning & removing it.

Whatever 'type' of stroke you make (back/forth, tip-to-heel, etc.), it's much MORE important to focus on keeping a progressively LIGHTER touch as you go. This is how the high polish will be attained. The smoother the bevel becomes, the less pressure is needed to enhance the polish. Just maintain the angle, and frequently inspect the work (under magnification & bright light) as you go.


Alright. Well with the medium grit stone, I went until I felt a slight burr on one side again, then flipped it over and felt a burr on the other side, then went back and forth. I tested it when I felt the burr and it wasn't sharp enough to catch my fingernail for obvious reasons, but a few passes on that side and lessen the burr and it's back to shaving easily again, so I think I'm getting on the right path here.

Now the question is do I go for the finest stone or settle for the medium for now :)
 
Alright. Well with the medium grit stone, I went until I felt a slight burr on one side again, then flipped it over and felt a burr on the other side, then went back and forth. I tested it when I felt the burr and it wasn't sharp enough to catch my fingernail for obvious reasons, but a few passes on that side and lessen the burr and it's back to shaving easily again, so I think I'm getting on the right path here.

Now the question is do I go for the finest stone or settle for the medium for now :)

Whatever you do, don't SKIP any grits. If you want to take it all the way to the finest stone, make sure you get there by way of the medium first. Take your time, relax. Don't rush. Sounds like you're headed in the right direction, so just take it steady as she goes... :thumbup:
 
Whatever you do, don't SKIP any grits. If you want to take it all the way to the finest stone, make sure you get there by way of the medium first. Take your time, relax. Don't rush. Sounds like you're headed in the right direction, so just take it steady as she goes... :thumbup:

Yeah, I'll never go from coarse to fine. I guess I'll go for the fine right now and see how it goes, if I didn't take it far enough with the medium and I ruin the edge I guess I'll start over. Gets harder feeling a burr with the finer stones.


EDIT: I am seeing that the fine stone doesn't even touch the edge, just the very top of the bevel. I'm getting a hairline mirror finish and nothing anywhere else. I didn't change the angle, but this stone is thicker than the coarse and medium. Ideas?
 
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Yeah, I'll never go from coarse to fine. I guess I'll go for the fine right now and see how it goes, if I didn't take it far enough with the medium and I ruin the edge I guess I'll start over. Gets harder feeling a burr with the finer stones.


EDIT: I am seeing that the fine stone doesn't even touch the edge, just the very top of the bevel. I'm getting a hairline mirror finish and nothing anywhere else. I didn't change the angle, but this stone is thicker than the coarse and medium. Ideas?

That's a bit worrysome to me. I'm assuming the fine stone is part of the same KME kit? If so, it ought to be exactly the same thickness as the others in order to work properly in this setup.

I see two possible paths here. You could STOP here, with the medium stone. If it's already produced a shaving edge, you've at least got a functional blade.

I haven't used the KME kit, but it appears that the height of the upper end of the guide rod can be continuously adjusted for angle? If your guide rod angle can be finely adjusted, the other possibility might be to adjust it while CLOSELY watching the stone-to-bevel contact (with the fine stone), until the fine stone is flush against your bevel. Then proceed SLOWLY, taking just a swipe or two to verify that the stone is touching flush with the full bevel, and doing so along the entire length of the cutting edge.

If it were me though, at this point, I'd take a break. Get in touch with the folks at KME and see what they can/will do to make sure you have all stones of the same thickness. In order for this 'system' to be simple to use, it's important that all stones be the same thickness.
 
That's a bit worrysome to me. I'm assuming the fine stone is part of the same KME kit? If so, it ought to be exactly the same thickness as the others in order to work properly in this setup.

I see two possible paths here. You could STOP here, with the medium stone. If it's already produced a shaving edge, you've at least got a functional blade.

I haven't used the KME kit, but it appears that the height of the upper end of the guide rod can be continuously adjusted for angle? If your guide rod angle can be finely adjusted, the other possibility might be to adjust it while CLOSELY watching the stone-to-bevel contact (with the fine stone), until the fine stone is flush against your bevel. Then proceed SLOWLY, taking just a swipe or two to verify that the stone is touching flush with the full bevel, and doing so along the entire length of the cutting edge.

If it were me though, at this point, I'd take a break. Get in touch with the folks at KME and see what they can/will do to make sure you have all stones of the same thickness. In order for this 'system' to be simple to use, it's important that all stones be the same thickness.


The stones all came with this kit, yes. The guide can be adjusted, right now I have it set to 30 degrees right now, so I can go down to 17. It seems like 20 makes contact with the actual edge but I'd have to check with a marker.

I'll take a break and talk to KME like you suggested, I'm going to take a picture of the stones as well. It is definitely sharper than I've gotten it before, so thanks for the tips again everyone. Maybe I have it figured out a little better. Still not as sharp as my better knives right out of the box, but not bad at all.
 
Thank you OWE for taking the time to give jfind good advice and walking him thru sharpening techniques, to obtain better edges . DM
 
I have one other potentially dumb question regarding strokes. It was my understanding that back and forth strokes were used for quickly establishing a new angle when needed, and that once you get to that point you should switch to the tip to heel/heel to tip to actually "sharpen" the blade. Is that true?
 
I have one other potentially dumb question regarding strokes. It was my understanding that back and forth strokes were used for quickly establishing a new angle when needed, and that once you get to that point you should switch to the tip to heel/heel to tip to actually "sharpen" the blade. Is that true?

In my experience, whether you use back/forth or tip-to-heel, or circular (as some do), it's pretty much a matter of preference. Ideally, when you have the time and opportunity to do so, experiment with whichever methods you'd like to try. You may find one that you're much more comfortable with, and which produces the results you desire.

I use a Lansky and/or GATCO system. They are guided rod systems like your KME kit. With these systems, I generally use a back/forth stroke for every part of the sharpening process (creating the new bevel, forming the burr, and then finishing & polishing the edge), which tends to produce a scratch pattern similar to that of most factory edges (the scratches, or grooves, tend to run perpedicular to the blade edge). For me, a back/forth stroke allows me to focus precisely on those areas/sections of the edge that still need more refinement. As the edge becomes more fine, you'll tend to notice that some sections of the edge will 'get there' much sooner than other sections. With a constant tip-to-heel stroke (or vice-versa), you may spend a lot of time sharpening sections of the edge that don't necessarily need that much attention.

And, for the very TIP of the blade, I find a back/forth stroke (perpendicular to the edge) to be much safer. In, my experience, a tip-to-heel (or heel-to-tip) stroke increases the danger of either running the stone all the way off the tip (resulting in rounding of the tip) or running the edge/side of the hone directly into the tip (resulting in a bent/knicked tip).

As I stated before, for me it's much more important to focus on using progressively lighter pressure, no matter which type/direction of stroke you use. As the edge becomes thinner and more refined, it's important that you lighten the pressure of the stroke, so you don't end up overpowering & dulling that fine edge.

Edited to add:
Let me add this point. I can see, for folks who use benchstones freehand, a tip-to-heel or heel-to-tip stroke more readily lends itself to a smooth, natural motion for sharpening. I don't knock this method at all. But for a guided rod system, with it's relatively smaller and narrower stones, and the fact that the rod is attached to the clamp/guide at the upper end, I think this setup more readily lends itself to a back/forth stroke (towards and away from the 'attachment' point on the guide).
 
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Thanks for the advice guys.



It's definitely the second then, because I can't mess the angle up with the KME sharpener. I just got a nice burr on one side, and turned it over and worked up another nice burr on the other. I'm not sure what you mean in the bold statement above though...

EDIT: Ok, I just go it the sharpest I've had it with the coarse stone, it's easily shaving right now. Now's the time to switch to a finer stone, right?

All I mean is that if you can turn a burr without applying pressure and do it on both sides of the edge, then you are done with that stone. The knife is now sharp. In order improve the edge further you simply repeat the process with finer grits until you get where you want to be. The burr will become smaller and sharper as you go. Test it against your thumbnail. In the end you can either remove the burr by pulling the edge on the stone or you can simply polish it out of existence like I do.
 
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