- Joined
- Jan 9, 2014
- Messages
- 527
Hey guys!
Just a warning, this is a little wordy. If you want the summarized version see the conclusion at the bottom and the graphics.
As a lot of you know, many people, including myself, have been having problems with kydex eyelets splitting since late last year. The problem seemed to be happening on and off through this period but every report of it was very similar. Most of the reported eyelet issues sounded something like this:
"I got a new batch of eyelets from my supplier and suddenly 50-90% of them are splitting. I've had the same dies and press for years and have set 1000's of eyelets in that time, with very few split ones. I'm pulling my hair out because this is holding up my work flow. I called my supplier and got a refund. Now I made an order from a different supplier _______ and their eyelets are performing perfectly."
I know of at least three threads (feel free to let me know if I misses any) on this topic started within the last 9 months including one I started when I had this problem for the first time in mid December last year
here are links to the other threads
my eyelet splitting thread thread
forum member kentucky's thread
Josh Mason's thread
My case was very similar to the example I gave above. I was getting eyelets from knifekits.com and started to have the issue at the start of a new batch I ordered. I had some of the old ones left and decided to weigh 10 of each (new/bad and the old ones); the new ones were consistently around 11% lighter than the old ones. This made me very suspicious that something had changed about the brass in the eyelets. The black coating on them also seemed to be lower quality, it wore off on while setting the eyelets. I ended up getting a refund and bought "siska" s-61 eyelets from USAknifemaker, on recommendation from multiple makers on the forum here. The first batch of eyelets from usaknifemaker worked as advertised (very few split after setting 1000 of them). Unfortunately I never weighed any of the good batch I ordered from usaknifemaker because I thought this problem was behind me, boy was I wrong....
So in mid august we started using our second batch of "siska" eyelets from usaknifemaker ( the order was placed around mid july, we were still using up the old batch). I was very surprised to find the exact same splitting problem had come back, half a year later and a different supplier. Again, I noticed the same issue with the black coating; It looked dull and rubbed off easily. This seemed like way to much of a coincidence to not be related to our earlier issues.
I was getting quite fed up with split eyelets by this point so I started making phone calls. First I called up usaknifemaker, they told me they had a lot of people complaining of the same issue but were still not sure what the problem was; however they said they believed the manufacturer had changed the type of brass used. They refunded me for the order without me asking. Next I called siska directly. They were a lot more tight lipped but admitted they had some people complaining about this problem with their black eyelets. They were trying to convince me that our issue was with our tooling. I found this very unlikely because the start of the issue coincided with the start of the new batch of eyelets, and because I had already had the issue once and it wasn't a tooling problem that time.
Next I did some more research on the forum and found the threads above with the exact same issue. This convinced me that the issue was not with my tooling.
Time to call Siska again. This time I pushed them further with my new information and they finally gave me some very interesting information.
They told me:
-Siska does not manufacture their eyelets. They are a distributor for STIMPSON and have been for over 70 years!
-Stimpson is the ONLY USA manufacturer of these eyelets.
-siska gets plain brass eyelets from stimpson and does the various coatings themselves.
-stimpson DID change the type of brass they use but this was sometime in the second half of 2014.
At this point I called knifekits.com (our old supplier) because another maker on the forum said they recently got a good batch from them. The person I spoke with was very nice, I explained a bit of the back story. They said they are familiar with the problem but they have fixed it with their supplier (stimpson). So I placed and order which arrived today. They are nice, shiny black, and set perfectly just like they used to. They also weigh the same amount as the old eyelets (from before the first time I had the issue). Makes me think that stimpson reverted to using their old brass composition.
Photo of one sheath with the bad eyelets (closest and two with the good ones I received today from knifekits). Notice the 7 of 10 split one the first sheath and black rubbed off.
Conclusion:
My best guess as to what caused this:
-either stimpson had a bad run of eyelets (likely caused by the new brass composition) OR something Siska did with the black coating caused the splitting (leaning towards the former)
-this large bad crop of eyelets went out through the distribution channels at different rates depending on how many eyelets a particular distributor moves.
-some distributors (ie. usaknifemaker) had large amounts of old stock, which is why they continued to sell the good old eyelets long after the problem first started occurring with other distributors.
these are true facts, to the best of my knowledge)
-Any company or website selling made in the USA kydex eyelets is selling Stimpson eyelets.
-Stimpson changed the composition of their brass in 2014 (i'm not sure whether they have since changed back or not)
-knifekits.com is supplying good eyelets now (if my order is any indication)
-siska and usaknifemaker haven't yet figured out the issue (in my experience) my guess is they have bad eyelets mixed with good ones or something.
-If you are suddenly having a splitting issue at the start of a new batch It is highly likely that the eyelets are the problem
-50-90% of the bad eyelets split. They split big too not just a minor hairline split (see photo above)
-the bad eyelets weigh 4.0 to 4.2 grams per 10 pieces
-the good eyelets weigh 4.7 to 4.8 grams per 10 pieces
-the good eyelets are a shiny deep black colour whereas the bad ones are a much more dull lighter black (almost charcoal)
I'm sure I missed some details and some of this may be a little confusingly worded. Let me know If you need clarification. I hope everyone has figured out their eyelet woes! I'm just happy I've got good ones again finally. Also, I've developed a very effective and fast method for removing split eyelets from kydex without damaging the kydex! It takes about 5- 10 seconds per eyelet. I'll do a separate thread on this if anyone is interested.
Cheers,
mike
Just a warning, this is a little wordy. If you want the summarized version see the conclusion at the bottom and the graphics.
As a lot of you know, many people, including myself, have been having problems with kydex eyelets splitting since late last year. The problem seemed to be happening on and off through this period but every report of it was very similar. Most of the reported eyelet issues sounded something like this:
"I got a new batch of eyelets from my supplier and suddenly 50-90% of them are splitting. I've had the same dies and press for years and have set 1000's of eyelets in that time, with very few split ones. I'm pulling my hair out because this is holding up my work flow. I called my supplier and got a refund. Now I made an order from a different supplier _______ and their eyelets are performing perfectly."
I know of at least three threads (feel free to let me know if I misses any) on this topic started within the last 9 months including one I started when I had this problem for the first time in mid December last year
here are links to the other threads
my eyelet splitting thread thread
forum member kentucky's thread
Josh Mason's thread
My case was very similar to the example I gave above. I was getting eyelets from knifekits.com and started to have the issue at the start of a new batch I ordered. I had some of the old ones left and decided to weigh 10 of each (new/bad and the old ones); the new ones were consistently around 11% lighter than the old ones. This made me very suspicious that something had changed about the brass in the eyelets. The black coating on them also seemed to be lower quality, it wore off on while setting the eyelets. I ended up getting a refund and bought "siska" s-61 eyelets from USAknifemaker, on recommendation from multiple makers on the forum here. The first batch of eyelets from usaknifemaker worked as advertised (very few split after setting 1000 of them). Unfortunately I never weighed any of the good batch I ordered from usaknifemaker because I thought this problem was behind me, boy was I wrong....
So in mid august we started using our second batch of "siska" eyelets from usaknifemaker ( the order was placed around mid july, we were still using up the old batch). I was very surprised to find the exact same splitting problem had come back, half a year later and a different supplier. Again, I noticed the same issue with the black coating; It looked dull and rubbed off easily. This seemed like way to much of a coincidence to not be related to our earlier issues.
I was getting quite fed up with split eyelets by this point so I started making phone calls. First I called up usaknifemaker, they told me they had a lot of people complaining of the same issue but were still not sure what the problem was; however they said they believed the manufacturer had changed the type of brass used. They refunded me for the order without me asking. Next I called siska directly. They were a lot more tight lipped but admitted they had some people complaining about this problem with their black eyelets. They were trying to convince me that our issue was with our tooling. I found this very unlikely because the start of the issue coincided with the start of the new batch of eyelets, and because I had already had the issue once and it wasn't a tooling problem that time.
Next I did some more research on the forum and found the threads above with the exact same issue. This convinced me that the issue was not with my tooling.
Time to call Siska again. This time I pushed them further with my new information and they finally gave me some very interesting information.
They told me:
-Siska does not manufacture their eyelets. They are a distributor for STIMPSON and have been for over 70 years!
-Stimpson is the ONLY USA manufacturer of these eyelets.
-siska gets plain brass eyelets from stimpson and does the various coatings themselves.
-stimpson DID change the type of brass they use but this was sometime in the second half of 2014.
At this point I called knifekits.com (our old supplier) because another maker on the forum said they recently got a good batch from them. The person I spoke with was very nice, I explained a bit of the back story. They said they are familiar with the problem but they have fixed it with their supplier (stimpson). So I placed and order which arrived today. They are nice, shiny black, and set perfectly just like they used to. They also weigh the same amount as the old eyelets (from before the first time I had the issue). Makes me think that stimpson reverted to using their old brass composition.
Photo of one sheath with the bad eyelets (closest and two with the good ones I received today from knifekits). Notice the 7 of 10 split one the first sheath and black rubbed off.
Conclusion:
My best guess as to what caused this:
-either stimpson had a bad run of eyelets (likely caused by the new brass composition) OR something Siska did with the black coating caused the splitting (leaning towards the former)
-this large bad crop of eyelets went out through the distribution channels at different rates depending on how many eyelets a particular distributor moves.
-some distributors (ie. usaknifemaker) had large amounts of old stock, which is why they continued to sell the good old eyelets long after the problem first started occurring with other distributors.
these are true facts, to the best of my knowledge)
-Any company or website selling made in the USA kydex eyelets is selling Stimpson eyelets.
-Stimpson changed the composition of their brass in 2014 (i'm not sure whether they have since changed back or not)
-knifekits.com is supplying good eyelets now (if my order is any indication)
-siska and usaknifemaker haven't yet figured out the issue (in my experience) my guess is they have bad eyelets mixed with good ones or something.
-If you are suddenly having a splitting issue at the start of a new batch It is highly likely that the eyelets are the problem
-50-90% of the bad eyelets split. They split big too not just a minor hairline split (see photo above)
-the bad eyelets weigh 4.0 to 4.2 grams per 10 pieces
-the good eyelets weigh 4.7 to 4.8 grams per 10 pieces
-the good eyelets are a shiny deep black colour whereas the bad ones are a much more dull lighter black (almost charcoal)
I'm sure I missed some details and some of this may be a little confusingly worded. Let me know If you need clarification. I hope everyone has figured out their eyelet woes! I'm just happy I've got good ones again finally. Also, I've developed a very effective and fast method for removing split eyelets from kydex without damaging the kydex! It takes about 5- 10 seconds per eyelet. I'll do a separate thread on this if anyone is interested.
Cheers,
mike
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