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Given the choice...
- Thread starter Armand
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silenthunterstudios
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If the sword was made before the Japanese Emperor took swords away from the samurai, I would buy the original Japanese made sword. If it was made afterwards, then that would be a tough call. If you can afford the swords made back in the 1700's and earlier, then you can probably afford to buy both. I would love to get into the pre 1700 samurai sword market, but I don't think I'll ever be able to afford any.
Lets hear some more info on the Japanese made sword.
Lets hear some more info on the Japanese made sword.
Both swords might be of the same quality, but they more than likely possess different qualities. Which of the qualities that they possess are of more use or significance to you?
Id go with the maker who I trust and respect, and the sword that best suits my needs. Both of these factors would be more important to me than the nation of origin, or the nationality of the maker.
Id go with the maker who I trust and respect, and the sword that best suits my needs. Both of these factors would be more important to me than the nation of origin, or the nationality of the maker.
silenthunterstudios
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I was going by the age. Also, please define needs. I love swords and have a couple, but I don't have any need for them. I believe you should support the makers out there, but IMHO, if the sword was made before the Emperors Samurai decree, collectability wise it would be better to get the one made in Japan.
Cougar Allen
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Is money an object? 'Cause if it is, I'd have to go with a US smith - A lot cheaper because there aren't any government restrictions; and given similar skills, the US smith has access to better steels and generally has more freedom to experiment.
Originality is fine, but unless it's a Koto piece or something of similar pedigree, it's not really "original." I'm really more inclined to view smiths as smiths. Besides, at this point, there are several non-Japanese smiths who can forge a blade that's as true to historical models as any Japanese tosho out there.
Originality is fine, but unless it's a Koto piece or something of similar pedigree, it's not really "original." I'm really more inclined to view smiths as smiths. Besides, at this point, there are several non-Japanese smiths who can forge a blade that's as true to historical models as any Japanese tosho out there.
Underhay said:I have no doubt that some modern American smiths actually make better functional swords than the Japanese, but I'm afraid it isn't a Japanese sword if it isn't made in Japan by a Japanese smith in the traditional way.
I have posted this question from another forum and this is the kind of answer that I was looking for :thumbup:
Triton
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Armand said:
Okay... so you are saying if it looks exactly like a Japanese sword, and it performs BETTER then a Japanese sword but it was made by an American you would rather have the Japanese sword? I'm assuming that you aren't talking about antiques?
Triton said:
Sorry for the confusion Triton, I do not mean if it is made by just by an American. I do not wan't to start a fight here
and it is not just about antiques.What I mean is a Japanese sword would not be considered as an authentic japanese sword unless it was made in japan done the traditional way, and done by a Japanese black smith. And that is why I pick a samurai that is made is Japan
...even if the other competitors ( that is not japanese made ) is far more better in function and in style 
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I think you'll find that the smiths who make those "authentic" Japanese swords would disagree with you... Perhaps not with your statement taken literally, since a "Japanese sword" is by definition (albeit a restricted one) made in Japan.
However, these Japanese smiths take foreign apprentices. The Yoshihara brothers participate in American bladesmithing events. Michael Bell spent a while learning under a Japanese smith. So did Rick Barrett. So did Louis Mills and Dr. Mike Blue.
If I were to choose between a collector's definition of a "Japanese sword" and a smith's, I'd choose the smith's opinion. Traditional bladesmithing is about passing down skills and traditions, and if Japanese smiths feel it appropriate to count foreign bladesmiths among their disciples, then I feel that those foreign smiths, regardless of where they set up shop, are part of a living tradition that allows them to call their swords "authentic." Furthermore, there are many American smiths out there (Louis Mills and Anthony DiCristofano, to name two) who create pieces that are often misidentified as antique blades of such-and-such Japanese sword schools. This is a striking indicator of the limited perspective of the purist collector. Would you trust their opinion if you can't always trust their appraisals?
I wouldn't. Just my two cents.
(Just as a quick aside - I've never heard a reputable American smith refer to his (or her) Japanese-styled blades as Nihonto. Because, strictly speaking, they aren't. They're not made in Japan, and they're not subject to the materials and production limits imposed by Japan's government. They may not adhere to the literal meaning of the phrase now, but in my opinion, they are more the heirs of "traditional" Japanese swordmaking than current Japanese swordsmiths - they work to improve their product, and to combine tradition with innovation - which was exactly how the Nihonto gained its world-wide fame.)
(One more aside - My personal feeling is that any sword made after an era where swordfighting was prevalent is a replica, or perhaps a martial arts tool. Quality and all other merits to the side, no sword will ever again (unless the zombies come) be tested in battlefield conditions. So it seems fairly petty to map distinctions belonging to bygone eras onto modern smiths.)
However, these Japanese smiths take foreign apprentices. The Yoshihara brothers participate in American bladesmithing events. Michael Bell spent a while learning under a Japanese smith. So did Rick Barrett. So did Louis Mills and Dr. Mike Blue.
If I were to choose between a collector's definition of a "Japanese sword" and a smith's, I'd choose the smith's opinion. Traditional bladesmithing is about passing down skills and traditions, and if Japanese smiths feel it appropriate to count foreign bladesmiths among their disciples, then I feel that those foreign smiths, regardless of where they set up shop, are part of a living tradition that allows them to call their swords "authentic." Furthermore, there are many American smiths out there (Louis Mills and Anthony DiCristofano, to name two) who create pieces that are often misidentified as antique blades of such-and-such Japanese sword schools. This is a striking indicator of the limited perspective of the purist collector. Would you trust their opinion if you can't always trust their appraisals?
I wouldn't. Just my two cents.
(Just as a quick aside - I've never heard a reputable American smith refer to his (or her) Japanese-styled blades as Nihonto. Because, strictly speaking, they aren't. They're not made in Japan, and they're not subject to the materials and production limits imposed by Japan's government. They may not adhere to the literal meaning of the phrase now, but in my opinion, they are more the heirs of "traditional" Japanese swordmaking than current Japanese swordsmiths - they work to improve their product, and to combine tradition with innovation - which was exactly how the Nihonto gained its world-wide fame.)
(One more aside - My personal feeling is that any sword made after an era where swordfighting was prevalent is a replica, or perhaps a martial arts tool. Quality and all other merits to the side, no sword will ever again (unless the zombies come) be tested in battlefield conditions. So it seems fairly petty to map distinctions belonging to bygone eras onto modern smiths.)
Triton
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Armand said:Sorry for the confusion Triton, I do not mean if it is made by just by an American. I do not wan't to start a fight here
What I mean is a Japanese sword would not be considered as an authentic japanese sword unless it was made in japan done the traditional way, and done by a Japanese black smith. And that is why I pick a samurai that is made is Japan
Oh no worries, just trying to nail down how you were making the distinction. :thumbup:
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That's easy. I am lucky to have a Japanese Katana, two quarter swords, a tanto, and a naval dirk. Given the money that American copies cost, I can't see the attraction of not buying the real thing and old. If I wanted a new one, as opposed to an old one, I would commission one from Japan. You won't lose on the deal in the long run. If you want to fight with it, cheap and cheerful is the way to go.