giving up again......

B

Bushman5

Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
9,833
some may remember that about 9 or so months ago i tried to sharpen my ZT0200. Well, i;m still trying.

I can get all of my other blades scary sharp, but not this one.

this blade has destroyed:
- 3 XXC DMT hones.
- 2 coarse/fine oilstones
- 16 sheets of 3M autobody paper, ranging from 200 - 6000 grits.

Not a spec of material has been removed off the blade, other than some polishing. Hell i had a knifemaker attempt to raise a burr on the edge with his belt sander. NADA. Nothing.

i have 154CM in my Emersons, i can get scary sharp on them with LITTLE effort, but NOT on my ZT0200 with the same steel.

short of spending $20 CDN to mail it back to the USA to ZT for sharpening (on their grinder wheels), i may fire upthe water cooled Norton cool wheel grinder and try to put some sort of edge onto this thing.

:mad:
 
Recurves can be a challenge to sharpen sometimes and to consistantly follow the flow/angle is a challenge in itself. If you can use a convex sharpening method, it makes it much easier.
 
Was it sharp when you bought it? Was it NIB? How long did it take to dull? What kinds of materials did you cut most?

I can't figure out why it can't be sharpened if it can be dulled? I believe you, BTW.:)
 
If it was taken to a belt sander I have to think that material has been removed. A belt sander IS going to remove metal.

That is not to say that for some reason the burr is coming off before you can feel it. It might break off before it gets big enough to be detectable? I have lots of 154CM that forms a burr just fine. Either that or you just aren't getting to the very edge. If it was convexed maybe the angle at the very edge has gotten to be so big that now most sharpening attempts are not getting down to the very edge.

I'm sure you have, but have you tried the sharpie trick to see where you are removing metal? And have you used some sort of magnification to look at the edge? Sometimes it looks like the sharpie is being removed but it is still there at the very edge. I got a pocket microscope for 10 bucks at radio shack that has 60-100X magnification. It really helps to see what is going on.

If you can't figure out how to do it on your own then I would say your best bet would be to send it to someone who sharpens a lot and maybe get it reprofiled if you don't mind a different edge. There are multiple people on here that will do it for next to nothing. That or send it back to Kershaw as I'm sure they can get it sharp and if there happens to be a problem with the steel, they will take care of it.
 
knife was BNIB, was sharp for months, was used for wood and string.

again, I can get all my other knives, planer blades, axes, and specialty tools scary sharp. Its NOT technique. yes i have done sharpie, yes i have used magnification. As of last night i have now had TWO knifemakers attempt to sharpen it. Both have stated the steel is harder than anything they have ever seen, one works with 154CM on a daily basis and was amazed that his belt sander could not touch the steel. I myself have MANY emersons in 154CM and can get them scary sharp with no effort.

I may get a waterjet cutter co to make me a 1095 carbon copy of the blade. I'm beyond fed up with the 154cm blade in this knife.
 
Any chance you could post a picture of what, if any, effect the sharpening to date has had on it?

cbw
 
Before you go over the edge it might be best, as mentioned before, to send it back along with all the info you have supplied here. They should make it right and return a knife that you can sharpen. Give the mfg. a chance at correcting this problem you have encountered.
I sure you want to know whats up with this blade.
Best of luck.
 
man, if we weren't so far apart (Louisiana) I'd like to check this thing out. 154CM only has 4% moly for extra carbide formation, and highest attainable hardness isn't anywhere near enough to challenge typical sharpening gear, much less diamond. Any isues I've had with 154/ATS34 have been the opposite - too soft on the stones, harder to sharpen because the edge won't form under any pressure at all.
 
That blade hasn't been touched by diamond? That must be some kind of amazing steel you've got there.
 
No way did you destroy 3 XXC dmt hones and not remove any steel from the blade. If a belt sander also didn't remove any steel from the edge bevel use a coarser belt. Do not move to a finer grit until you have gotten an edge with the coarser grit.
 
If it was sharp before you can sharpen it. judging by how much trouble it is i'm so getting this knife now:D.
 
If you don't send it back to Kershaw, sell it here with a link to this thread. Somebody will take it just for the challenge.
 
DutchV said:
If you don't send it back to Kershaw, sell it here with a link to this thread. Somebody will take it just for the challenge.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. This is too weird and interesting to send back to ZT only to have them send you a new one. That may sound a bit counter-intuitive, but it's my gut reaction. Heck of a challenge.
 
Bushman5,
I use a a 6" Cratex XF wheel followed by a hard buff with white or green rouge anytime I have a harder than normal time sharpening a knife. My wheel is 6" x 3/4" and cost around $75.00, but to me it was worth every penny. If you know someone with this type wheel, try it. I'd be curious as to what kind of results you'd get. I'll even go so far as to offer to sharpen it for you. You pay shipping to me and I'll pay shipping back to you. If you're interested, PM me or email me and I'll shoot you back my contact info, including my work contact info so you can be assured this is a legitimate offer. Let me know.

Larry
 
db said:
No way did you destroy 3 XXC dmt hones and not remove any steel from the blade. If a belt sander also didn't remove any steel from the edge bevel use a coarser belt. Do not move to a finer grit until you have gotten an edge with the coarser grit.
Click to expand...


:confused: I did destroy 3 DMT hones and I do know how to sharpen knives, i own about 30 of them plus a cabinet full of axes. I have not been able to get an edge on this knife nor has two other knifemakers. Ended up clamping it in a vice and using a chainsaw file to try ad get any sort of edge on it. The file glances right off the metal.

sending it back to ZT to get it reground, they suspect a bad heat treat.
 
there's no way a steel file is going to remove metal if diamond hones and abrasive belts didn't.
 
I believe you Bushy, with anything mass-produced there is always a certain percentage with problems. Sometimes you just get a dud/lemon.
Normally i stick to classic carbon steels and the old stainless standbys, but as i recently bought a S30V knife with good success so i figured i'd give 154CM a try, i bought a ZT 0200 around X-mas!
I really love the thing, and its the most expensive folder i've ever bought.
Its not really dull yet but as a test i just tried sharpening it on my sharpmaker, ceramics work fine on it.
Whew!
Hopefully yours was just a freak anomaly.
Keep us posted on your experience with ZT customer service and the replacement.
Kershaw owns ZT so i dare say you should get really great customer service.
Good luck!
:)
 
Bushman5,

While there may be no doubt that you have a dificult knife to sharpen, figuring out why would be beneficial to you, and educational for the rest of us. It's more than likely that Kershaw will simply replace the blade, I would imagine from a business standpoint that's a better $$ than trying to diagnose it. They may check it for QC purposes, but we'd probably not be privy to the results. Or they may just sharpen and return it without looking to see what was going on.

But a knife that dulled from cutting "wood and string" simply could not survive everything you've thrown at it with "not a spec of material removed". I'm sure sharpening is one of the final steps in manufacture, and there's nothing magical about the equipment a company uses. So if it can be sharpened once, it can be sharpened again.

So the trick is to figure out why. I've noted one thing that Kershaw does in sharpening, is they put a steeper final polish, usually on just one side of the knife. It results in a very sharp edge, but when it's time to resharpen, this either has to be matched or sharpened out. Maybe you worked this side and just didn't hit the edge. One possibility. Or you started at a lower angle. Or maybe even too high, if its a shape you're not used to.

Like Knifenut1013 suggested, sharpening a recurve can be a challenge not only in following the curve, but in how the blade contacts the stone, which affects the sharpening in several ways... less area of contact and the actual angle are a couple.

Is it possible that you ruined 3 XXC stones? Sure, especially if you started using a lot of pressure to grind the knife. If a person is sharpening a knife with a steel better than they're accustomed to, and not getting the expected results, this often happens. Some of the other methods you listed don't remove much metal, so you may not have seen much result. How two other knife sharpeners could attempt to sharpen it and not figure out what's going on is interesting, there are few reasons as to why this is possible, but it is possible. I'm sure the truth is, if you took time to really look at it, there is some result... but maybe not what you expect, so you're not seeing it.

I doubt that if you know how to sharpen, and have been able to maintain your other knives, that this would be due to a lack of skill. But it's simply not possible for a knife that has been sharpened once, and has dulled in use, to not be able to be sharpened again. In fact when this occurs it's usually the opposite... the steel is so bad it won't take and hold an edge. Doesn't seem like the case in this situation. So the benefit is in figuring out the reason, otherwise in a few months you're going to have the same issue. You should consider sending it to someone that can look at it and determine the cause. If you can, post some pics and let others take a look. Or just try again and clear your mind of what you think should happen, and look for what really is happening. The truth is, if you do have a blade that holds an edge better than normal, it might be one you want to keep!

cbw
 
Bushman5 said:
some may remember that about 9 or so months ago i tried to sharpen my ZT0200. Well, i;m still trying.

I can get all of my other blades scary sharp, but not this one.

this blade has destroyed:
- 3 XXC DMT hones.
- 2 coarse/fine oilstones
- 16 sheets of 3M autobody paper, ranging from 200 - 6000 grits.

Not a spec of material has been removed off the blade, other than some polishing. Hell i had a knifemaker attempt to raise a burr on the edge with his belt sander. NADA. Nothing.

i have 154CM in my Emersons, i can get scary sharp on them with LITTLE effort, but NOT on my ZT0200 with the same steel.

short of spending $20 CDN to mail it back to the USA to ZT for sharpening (on their grinder wheels), i may fire upthe water cooled Norton cool wheel grinder and try to put some sort of edge onto this thing.

:mad:
Click to expand...

I find this difficult to believe.
 
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