Glue

Ordinarily iwould say that CA can degrade over time, especially when in contact with moisture.. but horsewrights experience says that might not be much of an issue here? Dave - how many years of service do your knives typically see? My comparison is my kitchen knives - which are 20-30 years old and still going strong...
 
Diego_B said:
Now I feel like I have been misunderstanding adhesives. I always figured that epoxy was the standard but what you guys are saying about Gorilla Glue is now making me wonder why I haven't used it before. I will have to pick up a bottle and try it for myself.
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I am not familiar with USA made adhesives so i can not speak about them .But I found and read lot of research and laboratory tests .What is best for us is marine grade epoxy .I can say that without any doubt .Which brand i have no idea .
 
I’m experimenting now with the gorilla clear (not the CA) based off the recommendations here and so far I like the ease of application and it seems to cure just fine without dampening any surfaces given 24 hours to cure. I typically work in batches of 30-50 knives and mixing epoxy for that many starts to really add up, so a one part adhesive will save me 30 minutes to an hour for each batch in just not having to mix two parts.
 
Joshua Fisher said:
I’m experimenting now with the gorilla clear (not the CA) based off the recommendations here and so far I like the ease of application and it seems to cure just fine without dampening any surfaces given 24 hours to cure. I typically work in batches of 30-50 knives and mixing epoxy for that many starts to really add up, so a one part adhesive will save me 30 minutes to an hour for each batch in just not having to mix two parts.
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My knee-jerk reaction is to be *very* cautious about a process change that "saves time" without really understanding the long term implications of doing so .. Many products have gone down in flames because a change to shorten or make easier the production cycle caused catastrophic changes during use. I expressed a concern above that CA adhesives are known (this is a fact) to degrade over time wit h exposure to moisture. The caveat here is the "over time" bit. If the use of the thing causes the blade to degrade to the point of replacement before the adhesive on the handle fails, then this is not an issue. On the other hand, if the adhesive to the handle fails before the user would replace the knife because of degradation of performance of the edge, then this is not an option. There is a longer discussion about this under the topic of "reliability engineering" .... but I will skip that. Though .... this is why I asked above how long Horsewrights customers hold on to their knives before replacing them .... could be they just replace them before the handle fail (but maybe not).

I'm not saying dont use CA .... I am only cautioning to be careful about long term implications before making the switch, as performance right out of the shop is *not* going to be the same as long term performance....
 
Cushing H. said:
My knee-jerk reaction is to be *very* cautious about a process change that "saves time" without really understanding the long term implications of doing so .. Many products have gone down in flames because a change to shorten or make easier the production cycle caused catastrophic changes during use. I expressed a concern above that CA adhesives are known (this is a fact) to degrade over time wit h exposure to moisture. The caveat here is the "over time" bit. If the use of the thing causes the blade to degrade to the point of replacement before the adhesive on the handle fails, then this is not an issue. On the other hand, if the adhesive to the handle fails before the user would replace the knife because of degradation of performance of the edge, then this is not an option. There is a longer discussion about this under the topic of "reliability engineering" .... but I will skip that. Though .... this is why I asked above how long Horsewrights customers hold on to their knives before replacing them .... could be they just replace them before the handle fail (but maybe not).

I'm not saying dont use CA .... I am only cautioning to be careful about long term implications before making the switch, as performance right out of the shop is *not* going to be the same as long term performance....
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I’m not using a Ca glue though the gorilla clear is a polyurethane glue plus I use mechanical fasteners for every handle so the type of glue is almost irrelevant as long as it bonds and seals the joint
 
Joshua Fisher said:
I’m not using a Ca glue though the gorilla clear is a polyurethane glue plus I use mechanical fasteners for every handle so the type of glue is almost irrelevant as long as it bonds and seals the joint
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thanks Joshua. I was not talking specifically about you .... but rather about the general discussion on use of CA...
 
That’s the one Diego_B Diego_B There was a thread a couple of months ago where the gorilla glue was discussed too. I’ve used it since and have no complaints but when I used it on a compound (?) construction handle it showed a ghostly glue line between handle materials. Maybe this is why Horsewright Horsewright only uses it on bolstered knives?
 
Cushing H. said:
Ordinarily iwould say that CA can degrade over time, especially when in contact with moisture.. but horsewrights experience says that might not be much of an issue here? Dave - how many years of service do your knives typically see? My comparison is my kitchen knives - which are 20-30 years old and still going strong...
Click to expand...
Cushing H. said:
Ordinarily iwould say that CA can degrade over time, especially when in contact with moisture.. but horsewrights experience says that might not be much of an issue here? Dave - how many years of service do your knives typically see? My comparison is my kitchen knives - which are 20-30 years old and still going strong...
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I've been using the CA for some years now. I have had some customers wear out a knife but not many. My ranching partner does cause he's not very good at sharpening, (Steve your by here bout two times a week, ya know it takes me bout a minute to touch it up for ya). Several customers that are professional trappers have but they all seem to come back for more. Most customers look at them as generational. Years ago there was an epoxy that all the knife supply companies were selling. Everybody was using it including myself. Right about at two years after a knife was made there was some handle failures, I experienced it too. Ed Caffery (MS) spent some time on the phone with an engineer with that company. Eventually the guy admitted that they built in an approx two year lifespan into the epoxy! Why? So you would buy more epoxy. Don't hear much bout them anymore. But it was the glue at the time. Who knows or as we say in cowboyese, quien sabe? Again, I can only relate my personal experience. But in thousands of knives, all over the world, used in some of the harshest conditions, (musk ox hunting at 60 below, guy snapped the tip of the blade when he allowed his guide to use it to pop a joint, but the handle didn't come off). Now did have a gal in Norway accidentally drop it in a feed mixer while processing feed for their sheep, (think of a food processor on an industrial scale). She bought another. It's working for me, seems to be working for my customers too.

All glues can fail and so can mechanical fasteners, so can handle materials and so can steel.

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Guess it comes down to what is reasonable. This one was lost in a cattle chute, buried in manure and being run over by large bovines on a continual basis, (Gflex, pins and mammoth ivory). Spent 8 months in those conditions.

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This one similar conditions. Lost in a corral, buried in manure and found months later. Not suffering the hoof impacts though that the one in the chute did:

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Anyhoo.


Joshua Fisher said:
I’m experimenting now with the gorilla clear (not the CA) based off the recommendations here and so far I like the ease of application and it seems to cure just fine without dampening any surfaces given 24 hours to cure. I typically work in batches of 30-50 knives and mixing epoxy for that many starts to really add up, so a one part adhesive will save me 30 minutes to an hour for each batch in just not having to mix two parts.
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I get it. Understand completely.
 
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