God and Paradoxes

I would say C.
C.= "I came to seek and save that which was lost."

Then vigorously B.


Then A.

In that order!

One of his messages was that B. would not help you if C. didn't happen to you.

Tom
 
One of his messages was that B. would not help you if C. didn't happen to you.
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Help you?

Since when is the message of Jesus about personal gain?
At last we come to the crux of the problem (no pun intended)

This was not one of his messages, in my opinion, this was added by the writers later on.
The point of his message was not to do things for your own benefit.
If you do things for yourself, then how is that Christianity?
Life is not a video game with some big score or prize awaiting those who played it well.

This is the crossroads I came to and here I have been spinning for a while.
My theory is that we can do no good unless we accept that it must be good for its own sake with no thought of reward in the afterlife.
You must accept only life here and now, do good here and now, for the sake of the living. you must do it without expectation of reward.
THAT is faith.

Is it piety to help others because someone promises you a reward? Is that goodness?


This is truly close to the heart of the matter, the difference between the teachings of Jesus and the religion that bears his name.
 
DannyinJapan said:
I just dont like the fact that people confuse what the point of Jesus' teachings were.
Was the point of his work:
A. dont worry, be happy
B. Get off your ass and feed those orphans

I think it was B.
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IMO the powers that once were in the early days of the church took the religion, teachings, of Jesus and made it/them into a religion *about* Jesus.

When the feathers and beads of the old ndn beliefs are discarded what remains is the teachings.
The Catholic priests couldn't understand why they couldn't convert the Apache to thier beliefs.
The fact according to the Apache was that they saw no sense in changing because they had already met and knew Jesus.
The Pale One came to many tribes under many names and taught us how to live in all ways. I am very satisfied with all that I have been taught and learned.

I still love what Ben had to say about religion...
"Religion requires you to "believe", which is why it is called "faith".
Spirituality does not require "faith" or "belief", but depends on direct
knowledge of God, which can only come from God."

There are still many paradoxes and will no doubt always will be.
 
Putting my words into effect...

No further comment on this thread.

Not going away mad, Just going away!

:)

Tom
 
The bible itself tells us to avoid prophesy, witchcraft and magic, decrying such things as evil and unGodly.
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Danny...that doesn't make sense, seeing that the Bible is filled with "good" prophecy! :p

...
Jesus at least once is reported to have escaped stoning by repeating David's words: "You are gods". Jesus also made it clear that, apple trees give apples, plum trees give plums, etc- the authorized version renders it something like: "every tree bringing forth fruit after his kind". He was plainly saying that, if we are the children of God, that makes us...?

Oddly enough (or perhaps not- Christians often don't know what to do with teaching that is at odds with their theological understanding, especially when it comes directly from their "source"), I have never heard a sermon on the divinity of humanity.
...
"Quella"...the common document(s) several of the gospels are based on.
 
cliff355 said:
If capable of such things, a khuk sitting on an anvil might wonder why God allowed the hammer to exist. I have less trouble dealing with evil if I consider the world an anvil upon which I will be beaten until I turn into something God wants. Some souls need to be hammered more, some less. Most of the time when I see all the work God is putting into other folks, I stop complaining.
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maybe we are the rough steel sitting on god's anvil, being transformed into the next and more refined stage of existance.

maybe the kukhri sitting on the anvil LIKES being forged into something better and more beautiful.

i think of God as multi-dimensional, we are a three dimensional (possibly more?) creation attempting to describe a being with more dimensions. kinda like the two dimensional creatures of flatland trying to describe a three dimensional being that they can never actually see all aspects at once. God being the creator exists in all the dimensions he has created, God is Infinity.
__________________
CAVE CANEM ET SEMPER PARATUS
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Dum sanctis patriae legibus obsequimur
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If they don't want me to eat animals - why do they make them out of MEAT?
 
IMO the powers that once were in the early days of the church took the religion, teachings, of Jesus and made it/them into a religion *about* Jesus.>>>>>>>> Yvsa

If they didn't, they wouldn't be human. Today there are two centers on the local reservation named after NDN holy men of the past. The Govt did not name these centers. And I think of Mohamed, and Buddha, and how about the God whose sword decorates our khuks, Shiva?

I think Hero worship is beneficial in that there are many who will not yet think for themselves without the aid of one. Thus, someone drawn into a religion 'about' Jesus, later might take the teachings and branch out, or in, directing them deeper and more independantly.

I do not think it a Church that does these things precisely. I think men do these things.

However, many Christian friends of mine complain about "Religionosity" or "Churchosity" rather than focus being on the teachings and existence of God and enlightenment.

And naturally, a Church is an institution which like all, seeks to gain power.

The Southern Baptists like to keep a tight control, as does the Pope.


munk
 
What Danny said kind of rang true to me.

Sometimes I think too many people come to all religions because they want something from them. Too few come because they want to give. Or just understand. I kind of think the more you go up on the spiritual ladder if there is such a thing, the less you want from religion and the more you see religion being played out in the relative world.

Jesus said something about he who wants to save his life shall lose it, the parable about plucking our your eye, etc.

Buddah spoke about the freedom from desire being the path to ultimate liberation.

The Bhagavad Gita says something about being freed from the attachment to pairs of opposites.

The Tao has such a statement too. One of my faves:

Since the world points up beauty as such,
There is ugliness too.
If goodness is taken as goodness,
Wickedness enters as well.

For is and is-not come together;
Hard and easy are complementary;
Long and short are relative;
High and low are comparative;
Pitch and sound make harmony;
Before and after are a sequence.

Indeed the Wise Man's office
Is to work by being still;
He teaches not by speech
But by accomplishment;
He does for everything,
Neglecting none;
Their life he gives to all,
Possessing none;
And what he brings to pass
Depends on no one else.
As he succeeds,
He takes no credit
And just because he does not take it,
Credit never leaves him.
 
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