Going to try using plain edged H1 in the kayak for awhile.

Surfingringo

Surfingringo

Joined
May 25, 2013
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As many of you know I am a big fan of the salt knives. You might also know that virtually all of my salt knives are serrated. This is not because I find se more useful on the boat than pe, but simply because the edge retention is so much better. Well, a few months ago I ordered a new se Pacific Salt from an online retailer and they mistakenly sent me a pe version. Rather than returning it I just stuck it in a drawer. Today I saw the knife and I figured that now that I had the se Jumpmaster mounted in my kayak, there was no reason not to try carrying the pe Pacific Salt for awhile. I will try to update the thread and let you know how it compares over the coming weeks to my se Pacific Salt.

Also, I just sharpened it up on the sharpmaker and I had kind of forgotten how screaming sharp plain edge H1 will get...in seconds. I just micro beveled it on the medium rods and its hair whittling.
 
I will be keeping up with your results as you post them...
I'm getting closer to H1.
 
Get it reground. Think you will be impressed with H1 at 0.01 or below at the edge.
 
I'm interested to hear about your results, your use obviously is about as "real world" as anyone's on here is with their Salts.
 
Edge retention Has never been an issue while using my PE Pacific salt on my boat.I have never been at sea long enough or used the knife hard enough for edge retention to be a factor while on my boat fishing.I use my Pacific Salt models as a general salt water fishing utility knife.I always touch up or sharpen my PE Pacific Salt after every fishing trip to ensure a screaming sharp blade for the next trip.The PE version sharpens really fast, and I mean literally a few strokes on the brown Sharpmaker rods and the edge is screaming sharp.This is why I prefer the PE model over the SE.The fact that sharpening the PE is quick and easy and I always get a very keen edge.The SE model is kind of a PITA to sharpen.When I sharpen or touch up my SE model, I never seem to get the SE edge as screaming sharp as the original factory edge or a PE model. I have heard many times that H1 SE version steel has excellent edge retention,but never found edge retention a factor at sea while fishing.Edge retention only really comes in to play when I have a lot of fish to clean and process from my experiences.If you cut through a lot a fish bones, skin, and thick scales then edge retention is a factor.My tool of choice would not be a folding pocket knife for cleaning a ton of fish. I am usually to busy to even consider sharpening while at sea fishing on my boat so I can understand why some may choose a SE Pacific Salt over a PE model.Not only do I find the PE version easier to sharpen, but I prefer PE over SE for almost every task while at sea fishing. The exception would be cutting rope or slicing through fish bones. I own and enjoy both models, but I tend to prefer the PE model more.It really takes a keen edge really quickly, and I have never cut enough while at sea fishing to ever dull the blade beyond usefulness.I usually make it a habit to clean my fish on land.I may gut the fish while on the water and the PE version works excellent and cuts a belly like a laser. It takes literally seconds to sharpen the knife on land if you decide to use the PE to clean fish if it's the only knife you have on hand for the job.The SE will cut through fish bones better than the PE, but I usually steak or fillet most of my catch back on dry land using other types of knives than a folding pocket knife.For a general utility salt water fishing folding pocket knife you really can't beat either the SE or the PE Spyderco Pacific Salt.
Best,
salmonkiller
 
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Cool...more fishing pics from SG are inbound! :thumbup:
 
Here's something to consider as well... If you like the serrated and the PE both, you can grind the serrated to a high flat grind and it will smooth out the serrations a bit. I'm in love with this grind. It still retains a great edge and cuts extremely aggressively, but it cuts just a bit smoother than standard serrations.

image_4.jpg


Tom isn't doing regrinds anymore, but others will.
 
Well, day 1 is in the books and the knife got a ton of use. Sorry, but no pics. :( The knife had the factory bevel with a very light 40 degree microbevel added on the brown sharpmaker rods.

Anyway, fish were on the bottom today so I was jigging up some small grouper. I butterflied and filleted those to make cut bait to try to get some snapper. Basically I was using the belly and tip of the pe Pacific Salt like a fillet knife. I performed this on three small 8"-10" grouper and by the third one the knife was really struggling. Also I was cutting a couple of the fillets into strips on the hard plastic top of my kayak. This would be about the same hardness as a synthetic cutting board. So basically I filleted three tiny fish and cut about 6-8 strips. That was all the use it got...and when I got in the front half of the blade was absolutely butter knife dull.

I just resharpened and I went ahead and left a coarse (400 grit) 30 degree edge. We will see if this does any better but I am not holding my breath. So far, this is just confirming my long held opinion that though pe H1 does fine on soft media like wood, once it runs into anything a bit harder or more abrasive it loses its sharpness almost immediately. Like I said though, I'm going to play with some different edges and see if I can milk a little better performance out of it. So far though I'm missing my serrated salt. :(
 
Surfingringo said:
. So far, this is just confirming my long held opinion that though pe H1 does fine on soft media like wood, once it runs into anything a bit harder or more abrasive it loses its sharpness almost immediately. Like I said though, I'm going to play with some different edges and see if I can milk a little better performance out of it. So far though I'm missing my serrated salt. :(
Click to expand...

I still think a thinner reground blade in H1 could serve you better.

I have reground 2 PE salts and have gone through chicken bones with little to no edge damage. Granted I do not know fish as I like to keep my feet on dry ground but would love to see if a reground PE H-1 would fare better in your uses as it has in mine.
 
FWIW, regrinding should work harden the edge as well. So, what Marthinus and I are experiencing with our reground blades may be a product of slightly higher hardness.
 
Spyderco Dude said:
I'm interested in hearing about the knifes edge retention after multiple sharpenings.
Click to expand...

So am I, especially after seeing that video recently where Janich is talking about the PE Aqua Salt and claims that SERE instructors told him that theirs showed improved edge retention over time. I think it's fair to say that the initial report on real world retention is pretty dismal.
 
Had the knife out on the water all morning. I am running a 30 degree edge with a coarse finish now to see if i get any improvement in edge retention. I didn't do the same level of work because i wasn't cutting bait today but so far the edge is holding up ok. I will try to do some more bait cutting tomorrow.

As far as the fishing....I got absolutely SMOKED by a giant cubera snapper today. He hammered a surface lure and went straight into the rocks. I never had a chance. :(
 
John_0917 said:
So am I, especially after seeing that video recently where Janich is talking about the PE Aqua Salt and claims that SERE instructors told him that theirs showed improved edge retention over time. I think it's fair to say that the initial report on real world retention is pretty dismal.
Click to expand...

Can you link that video?
 
I had my Pac Salt reground by Big Chris. After repeated sharpening it still holds an edge poorly.
[youtube]ygOzd07Aa4A[/youtube]
 
Here is my Salt 1 at .01 behind the edge with a 5 degree per side edge cutting some chicken bone.

[video=youtube;-tMi4exFe3k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tMi4exFe3k[/video]
 
hmmmm, had a jumpmaster plain edge and only use it to cut down some sticks and sharpen then. felt like it needed a bit of a touch up on the white rods of the sharpmaker to get it back to factory sharpness...
i love the ergonomics of the jumpmaster, but to me the edge retention seemed poor as well.
 
Gave the pe Salt another day of use today. I brought in a few small snapper today and used the Salt a bit at the cleaning table just to get some data. Sorry, no pics from the cleaning table but heres a pic of a couple of the fish.

I filleted the small snapper with my fillet knife but on two of them I used the Pacific Salt to make the first cut behind the gill. This cut goes through skin and scale and some soft rib bones. I would guess that each of those cuts is about the same effect as the cuts Marthinus made in that video on the chicken. So, two fish, a cut on each side, I made four of those cuts in total. Lets say 5 seconds per cut so maybe 20 seconds of actual cutting through abrasive material.

I had sharpened with a coarse 600 grit edge at 30 degrees. When I came in I checked the edge and it was pretty dull. There were some visible shiny spots in the belly. The edge was still functional but just barely by my standards. I think it performed a bit better with the coarse edge but it didn't make a massive difference. This is the problem I have with plain edge H1...it takes a great edge and will hold that through a decent amount of light work but when I start cutting anything tougher or more abrasive and the sharpness starts to fall off, it falls off FAST! If I had done this same work with an s30v blade it would have dulled some too but it would dull to a certain point (what we often call a working edge) and then hold that level of sharpness for a long time. Plain edge H1 in my experience just doesn't hold that working edge very well. It just kind of skips that whole level. Once it stops being sharp, it is dull. Again, this has just been my experience through a lot of use and some rope testing.

Now don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying it is a bad steel. It has a lot of very positive qualities. It is extremely tough, easy to sharpen, takes an amazing edge and like se H1 is completely corrosion proof. I can see it being an excellent choice for a tough edc blade that doesn't see a lot of hard and abrasive material. It definitely has its place in my lineup, it just has no place in my kayak. I've seen enough. I will be going back to my amazing se Salts until we have a better corrosion proof, high wear resistant pe option. *(Based on the testing I've done with my Tusk, lc200n is indeed a better pe option so I'm looking forward to seeing some new offerings in that steel).
 
I do not use my Salts nearly as much as you do, but my experience is similar to yours. The few Salts I have are all serrated, but I have seen the same loss of edge on the plain edge tips. Sharp the one moment, butter dull the next.

I know you have sharpened a few knives before, so I am just throwing this out there, but could it be a burr? I have seen some stubborn floppy burrs on H1 before. If you have a burr that is perfectly aligned with the edge it might look sharp but will collapse immediately once you cut something.
 
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