Gold & Silver question

Bugs57 said:
Buying coin boxes from banks to fish through for silver is old news. Years ago this was feasible but now that Grandma is savvy to this so are the banks and the percentage of silver coins that might show up is not worth the labor it takes to pick through these boxes.

Quite frankly the easiest and most liquid method to buy and sell silver and gold is just to purchase the ETF's on the stock exchange. GLD for gold and SLV for silver. These have the advantage of no issues for storage and possible theft and instant liquidity to buy and sell. Also no dealer markup with purchase and selling fees, no shipping fees, etc.

The argument of having physical precious metal makes no sense to me. If the proverbial SHTF scenario does take place the new currency will be ammo. Precious metals has it's place as a currency and inflation hedge but some go way overboard with this.
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This seems most reasonable. What's the thinking for needing physical product?
 
I meant to mention ETF's also. But others beat me to it. [emoji41]. I actually have much more in GLD ETF (Spydr Gold Trust), than physical gold and silver combined. I would consider the etf's the better option if the idea is short to medium increase. But if it's part of an end-of-days plan, or simply something fun to own and/or to pass something unique on to heirs, then by all means, buy what you can afford. I'm in that second group. Only I can no longer afford to purchase anything new, so I just like to fondle and enjoy the little bit I have.

To me, the physical stuff is mostly eye candy (gun safe, knife shelf). But heck, I'm attracted to heavy metal objects.....so knives, guns, motorcycles, and yes, precious metals....it's all good. [emoji41][emoji56]. Unfortunately I usually find myself buying high and selling low. I'm very good at that.

Because I purchased most of my physical silver at the market all-time high, I decided to play with some of it. I made myself a new wedding band with a couple of 1/4oz silver rounds. I punched a hole in the middle of each of them, put them on a cheap steel ring mandrel, and started to hammer away. I'm sure there are better methods than cold forge welding two coins together, but I'm actually pleased with how it turned out.

9l93rq.jpg


My ring started life as a couple of these Apmex 1/4 Rounds. It took a while, but it was fun....so very worth it. I've since made a few for friends and family , but there are only so many hours per day for hobby activities. However, I must say that my all time favorite hobby, is trying new hobbies. [emoji16][emoji51][emoji41]. But I am really tempted to hack into one of my two little gold loafs for another ring. Although I really want to, I'm hesitant because it would greatly affect resale of the remaining amount. Most likely I'll just save up for a 1/2oz gold round, and go from there. Much easier for a novice with a cheap mandrel and jewelers hammer.

Since I'm using pure silver and not sterling, it does scratch easier. So every few weeks I just tap it on a buffing wheel, and good as new.

33ttmyg.jpg







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Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
 
bflying said:
I meant to mention ETF's also. But others beat me to it. [emoji41]. I actually have much more in GLD ETF (Spydr Gold Trust), than physical gold and silver combined. I would consider the etf's the better option if the idea is short to medium increase. But if it's part of an end-of-days plan, or simply something fun to own and/or to pass something unique on to heirs, then by all means, buy what you can afford. I'm in that second group. Only I can no longer afford to purchase anything new, so I just like to fondle and enjoy the little bit I have.

To me, the physical stuff is mostly eye candy (gun safe, knife shelf). But heck, I'm attracted to heavy metal objects.....so knives, guns, motorcycles, and yes, precious metals....it's all good. [emoji41][emoji56]. Unfortunately I usually find myself buying high and selling low. I'm very good at that.

Because I purchased most of my physical silver at the market all-time high, I decided to play with some of it. I made myself a new wedding band with a couple of 1/4oz silver rounds. I punched a hole in the middle of each of them, put them on a cheap steel ring mandrel, and started to hammer away. I'm sure there are better methods than cold forge welding two coins together, but I'm actually pleased with how it turned out.

9l93rq.jpg


My ring started life as a couple of these Apmex 1/4 Rounds. It took a while, but it was fun....so very worth it. I've since made a few for friends and family , but there are only so many hours per day for hobby activities. However, I must say that my all time favorite hobby, is trying new hobbies. [emoji16][emoji51][emoji41]. But I am really tempted to hack into one of my two little gold loafs for another ring. Although I really want to, I'm hesitant because it would greatly affect resale of the remaining amount. Most likely I'll just save up for a 1/2oz gold round, and go from there. Much easier for a novice with a cheap mandrel and jewelers hammer.

Since I'm using pure silver and not sterling, it does scratch easier. So every few weeks I just tap it on a buffing wheel, and good as new.

33ttmyg.jpg







•••••••••••••••

Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
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Looks good!
I didn't really have to much of a plan to begin with, I like the idea of having it physically in my possession but I can see how it would be beneficial to buy etf's.

Some really great advice!
 
I haven't collected gold or silver much. The precious metals I tend to spend money on are copper, lead, and of course INFI as extrabacon said. The silver market never worked out for me.
 
Do NOT buy ETFs. Buying ETFs is the worst advice you can possibly follow. ETFs are manipulated paper leveraged 100 to 1. You just bought 1 oz of gold/silver via an ETF...congratulations, 99 other people did the same thing for the same oz you just bought. It's highly manipulated. Prime example is what we are seeing in the market now. 8,000 tons of gold contracts were sold into the market. 8,000 tons! That's equivalent to the entire US Govt gold holdings (if you believe those numbers). Never ever ever ever ever ever buy ETFs if you're buying gold/silver for a protection of your financial assets. Buying an ETF for financial security is like buying a gun from a gun dealer for personal defense but having him hold it for you. If you don't have it in hand, it's not yours.

To the people saying buy food, ammo, water, shelter, etc. Those are great ideas for a pure end of the world scenario when all social infrastructure and markets fail. You should do this well before thinking of buying gold/silver. However, if you are buying gold/silver to preserve financial wealth in case of another housing market collapse (or the upcoming bond/govt debt bubble burst), you do not buy those things. When the 2007-2008 Great Recession happened, did you all break out your freeze dried food and start bartering ammo for services and/or other supplies? No, you watched your 401ks lose half their value and watched your home values drop and then watched gold and silver go up in value 2-5x. If another financial collapse doesn't happen, you still have value in gold/silver.

There are many reputable dealers. I use JM Bullion (#1 choice), PCE, Bullion Exchange, APMEX, Scottsdale, US Gold Bureau (not my favorite since they started telemarketing me - just took advantage of some good deals). I personally suggest that you buy 1 oz sovereign silver coins - silver eagles, maples, pandas, libertads, britannias, etc. (they hold both silver and numismatic value) instead of generic rounds - although they are more expensive. If you buy gold, buy it in lower denominated weights, 1/4 or 1/2 ounces. They'll be easier to use as money later if necessary and if there is a huge spike in prices, you'll be able to sell them easier. I'd also suggest a 10-1 ratio silver to gold as silver is probably the most undervalued asset in the world. And when I say 10-1 ratio, I don't mean by weight, I mean total dollars spent. Wait for the weekly deals or flash sales.

Buying gold/silver is a great idea. With $20t debt, negative interest rates on sovereign bonds at $13t+ globally, a Fed incapable of normalizing interest rates (if the economy is so great why are we still at near 0% interest rates), derivatives leveraged to unfathomable levels, and on and on and on.

Get your spirit right first. Then buy Busse knives, food, water, shelter, medicine, ammo, defense. Then gold/silver. JM Bullion will treat you right.
 
UNRL Ghandi said:
Do NOT buy ETFs. Buying ETFs is the worst advice you can possibly follow. ETFs are manipulated paper leveraged 100 to 1. You just bought 1 oz of gold/silver via an ETF...congratulations, 99 other people did the same thing for the same oz you just bought. It's highly manipulated. Prime example is what we are seeing in the market now. 8,000 tons of gold contracts were sold into the market. 8,000 tons! That's equivalent to the entire US Govt gold holdings (if you believe those numbers). Never ever ever ever ever ever buy ETFs if you're buying gold/silver for a protection of your financial assets. Buying an ETF for financial security is like buying a gun from a gun dealer for personal defense but having him hold it for you. If you don't have it in hand, it's not yours.

To the people saying buy food, ammo, water, shelter, etc. Those are great ideas for a pure end of the world scenario when all social infrastructure and markets fail. You should do this well before thinking of buying gold/silver. However, if you are buying gold/silver to preserve financial wealth in case of another housing market collapse (or the upcoming bond/govt debt bubble burst), you do not buy those things. When the 2007-2008 Great Recession happened, did you all break out your freeze dried food and start bartering ammo for services and/or other supplies? No, you watched your 401ks lose half their value and watched your home values drop and then watched gold and silver go up in value 2-5x. If another financial collapse doesn't happen, you still have value in gold/silver.

There are many reputable dealers. I use JM Bullion (#1 choice), PCE, Bullion Exchange, APMEX, Scottsdale, US Gold Bureau (not my favorite since they started telemarketing me - just took advantage of some good deals). I personally suggest that you buy 1 oz sovereign silver coins - silver eagles, maples, pandas, libertads, britannias, etc. (they hold both silver and numismatic value) instead of generic rounds - although they are more expensive. If you buy gold, buy it in lower denominated weights, 1/4 or 1/2 ounces. They'll be easier to use as money later if necessary and if there is a huge spike in prices, you'll be able to sell them easier. I'd also suggest a 10-1 ratio silver to gold as silver is probably the most undervalued asset in the world. And when I say 10-1 ratio, I don't mean by weight, I mean total dollars spent. Wait for the weekly deals or flash sales.

Buying gold/silver is a great idea. With $20t debt, negative interest rates on sovereign bonds at $13t+ globally, a Fed incapable of normalizing interest rates (if the economy is so great why are we still at near 0% interest rates), derivatives leveraged to unfathomable levels, and on and on and on.

Get your spirit right first. Then buy Busse knives, food, water, shelter, medicine, ammo, defense. Then gold/silver. JM Bullion will treat you right.
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10 to 1 sounds like a lot.
Let's assume $10K.
Means you'll buy ~1oz of Gold and then silver for the remaining $9k?
That's 700+ Oz of silver per Oz of gold. Or 48+ pounds of Silver per Oz of gold. Where'd you store all this?
 
Jens Schuetz said:
10 to 1 sounds like a lot.
Let's assume $10K.
Means you'll buy ~1oz of Gold and then silver for the remaining $9k?
That's 700+ Oz of silver per Oz of gold. Or 48+ pounds of Silver per Oz of gold. Where'd you store all this?
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^-- Yep, silver is bulky by comparison. 715 troy oz of junk silver is $1000 face value. It usually comes in two $500 canvas bags, each one approx 14" x 8" x 3" and weighs around 54lbs total, so plan accordingly.

One more note - When first minted, $1,000 FV of 90% silver weighs 803.76 troy ounces. Since it is 90% silver, that means that the coins contain 723.38 troy ounces of pure silver. A circulated bag contains roughly 715 ounces of pure silver due to wear.
Some dealers charge more for half dollars because they were usually circulated much less, and those bags can have up to the full uncirculated 723 troy oz of silver per bag.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
10 to 1 sounds like a lot.
Let's assume $10K.
Means you'll buy ~1oz of Gold and then silver for the remaining $9k?
That's 700+ Oz of silver per Oz of gold. Or 48+ pounds of Silver per Oz of gold. Where'd you store all this?
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700 oz fits in a 1k 5.56 ammo can. I'd store it right next to my 25k CCI Mini Mags, 10k 5.56, etc. :) If you're buying it as an investment bulky shouldn't matter. If you look at the high price of gold and silver in comparison to where it is now, if they both hit all-time highs again, you're return on gold would only be 1.6x and silver would be 2.9x. Obviously if you're planning to carry it or have storage issues, gold is better than nothing.
 
Something to think about. If and when the SHTF, what are you going to buy with all that gold and silver if there is nothing to buy? You can't eat it, or live in it. I would think that things that can be bartered would be a lot more useful, like .22 and maybe 9mm ammo.

I you haven't read "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy, you should. The characters find an underground shelter and among other things they discovered where a bunch of Krugerrand's. They left them there. They were totally useless.
 
Space is an issue? :confused: 700 oz of silver can fit into less space than 24 oz of INFI/micarta when using a cgfbm and an ammo can for example. Anyone with a few mistress size blades on hand can spare an ammo can's worth of storage space.

I don't mess with gold, as it's only function is as currency or jewelry yet it ties up a lot of money per oz. Silver on the other hand can be functional aside from having a more practical value per piece for trading. Per info I received from my grandma who grew up with a wooden ice box (that I have now) if you place a pure silver coin or two in the bottom of your milk container it will keep longer due to the antimicrobial properties of silver. It also helped with surface/rain water collection that could not be boiled or filtered prior to use out on the farm in the pre-electric days. I've tested it and can vouch for the effectiveness with raw milk from goats/sheep/cows, but it is much less noticeable with store bought pasteurized milk. That is also a place a thief would probably not check to steal it either.
 
UffDa said:
Something to think about. If and when the SHTF, what are you going to buy with all that gold and silver if there is nothing to buy? You can't eat it, or live in it. I would think that things that can be bartered would be a lot more useful, like .22 and maybe 9mm ammo.

I you haven't read "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy, you should. The characters find an underground shelter and among other things they discovered where a bunch of Krugerrand's. They left them there. They were totally useless.
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If SHTF to the point you are describing I will buy with my gold/silver the same thing I will buy with my credit card and cash money...probably nothing. In that situation though, would you rather have an ounce of gold in your hand or $1200 in an insolvent bank? Something to think about is what if S doesn't HTF? You've got a bunch of ammo that may or may not have value. You going to pay a kid's college bills with ammo? Maybe you could sell 20 year old rimfire ammo to someone, but I doubt it will retain all of its value. 20 years ago an ounce of gold was $375ish per ounce. Tell me if you spent $5k on .22 bullets and $5k on gold which you'd rather have now. Precious metals are a hedge, not necessarily a solution. If society collapses to the point where there is no national currency, no one will accept gold or silver because we'd likely be in a live or die scenario and 80% of the population would be dead anyway. If a money system exists, gold/silver will always have value.

If some guy says to you in a SHTF situation, "I have some vegetables to trade you for your .22 bullets." are you really going to give a man ammo to use in a gun to potentially shoot you with it? In reality we'll more likely barter time in service for the things we need. Why would a farmer need bullets? To protect his crops from scavenging people or wild animals attacking his animals. I would offer my service of protection with the guns/ammo I have for a side of beef, some veggies, etc. If I had nothing else to offer, would a farmer accept my gold/silver? I don't expect so.

People have to stop thinking that SHTF = apocalypse. When WWII was raging people still went to school, church, work, the movies, etc. Unless we end up in a Walking Dead or Mad Max type situation, gold/silver are a much better investment than anything else right now given the state of the global economy.
 
During a galloping hyper inflation in Germany you'd get a bread for a golden finger ring with some stones on it. So during a real shtf scenario Gold is worth much less. Still it'll be worth more then than the money you used to buy it before the inflation. :-p

Also once the shtf is over, gold will reach its previous value over time while paper money will not.

Diversification is key. Have goods and the skills and means to produce them in order to survive the shtf and have gold to recover faster once it's over.

In an emergency one might even trade then very valuable food and meds for Gold and property which are worth less in that time.

Anyways how likely is such scenario. How often does something like this happen? Prioritise accordingly and don't bind up too much resources in most likely dead assets.
 
JM Bullion, Apmex, and Provident Metals have worked well for me. Apmex can have higher shipping at times, so make sure to take that into consideration.

Look at these 2 websites for price comparisons on several vendors:

https://comparesilverprices.com/

https://comparegoldprices.com/

If you're thinking about holding significant amounts of gold/silver at home, please also consider a monitored alarm system, PLUS a decent storage safe. You can get a gently used TL15 or TL30 rated safe from a local safe dealer for a reasonable price, including delivery/installation.
 
The best way to buy precious metals is to become a dealer. That way you don't lose your patootie when the market drops................like I and a bunch of others did in the '80s.

I'm not saying don't buy gold and silver. Just be realistic.
 
Lots of really good advice! I'm thinking for sure I'll probably go with jmbullion as a main source then hit up the other sites when they have specials or deals available. I haven't looked into safes yet but that's a great point.
 
UffDa said:
The best way to buy precious metals is to become a dealer. That way you don't lose your patootie when the market drops................like I and a bunch of others did in the '80s.

I'm not saying don't buy gold and silver. Just be realistic.
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why did the market drop then?
 
boring said:
why did the market drop then?
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A Recession that saw interest rates above 20%....Double digit unemployment some major areas like Michigan as high as 25%...Inflation was out of control and Banks to BIG to fail went under. This was a global situation affecting not only the USA but, Canada, Japan, UK, and other Large Nations with global trade.
 
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