Gona start beating it....

W

Whoever Wherever

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Nov 17, 2006
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Well its time. With stuff on the way (forge, steel, anvil) I am getting butterflies like im headed to prom. Just a few questions.

I have some of Aldos 1084 on the way so that's 1/4 by 1 1/2 if I am correct. What would be the best size and most versatile tongs to get for working with this stock. I was thinking of going with toms tongs and can probably afford 2 pairs of tongs to start off with.

I was going to get a 2.5# cross peen and dress the face. What other hammers compliment that one? I can probably afford 2 other hammers as long as they are not very expensive. I remember a while back a forumite making cool Japanese (I think) style hammers. does anyone remember who that was?

How many knives do you tend to get out of a pound of steel. I was figuring 2-3 but I have never paid to much attention to how much the steel weighs, I am usually focused on the weight of the handle mats if anything. I would be making knives in the 1/8 thickness with 5-6" average blades but i assume in the forging process I will have to make them thicker so I can grind down to shape. Just wondering what you average.

This is going to sound silly but whats the best way to mount an anvil to a stump? How does one get a stump level? I know I can probably figure out something on my own. With things this heavy though I like to redo things as few times as possible to get good results.

Anything else I need? I was figuring some borax, welders gloves and a leather apron. I know I need a self darkening welding mask for staring inbto the forge. Did I miss anything?

Thanks for any help. I cant wait to get started.:)
 
Tom Tongs are great. I'm a little unhappy as I have a set that broke and I can't seem to get anybody to do anything about it... But even with that in mind, they're great.

A set of Z-jaws is hard to beat. They are like V-bit tongs, but off-set, so you're not limited by the length of the jaws from pivot pin to end.

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Then a set of 1" box jaws would be good as well. Well, it looks like Tom only makes them up to 5/8" you can get 1" from Off-Center forge (available through Blacksmith Depot) Here's a pic of Tom's box jaws

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It's nice to have a set of general pick-up and/or scrolling tongs too.

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There's several ways to mount an anvil. I highly recommend putting silicone sealant under it. It REALLY helps to deaden the ring.

Stumps are cool/traditional, but I've had a lot better luck with building a stand out of stacked wood. :)

I dug up some pics that show my anvil stand and some hammers I use a lot, hope this helps :)

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I learned the square face ball-pein trick from Wayne Goddard. I use them a lot for refining bevels on my blades. They balance well, and are easy to get and change to your wants. :)
 
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Here's a couple more, just because :)

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Here's a really old one. That's my old 110# Hercules anvil :) But the point is the hammer. It's a basic 3# Engineers hammer that has been ground to diagonal peins on both sides. One side will draw the metal being forged lengthwise, the other side for lateral movement. :)

drawingOSFtang-5f326.jpg
 
A good second hammer is a 2.5# vertical peen ( 90 degrees from a cross peen). I actually use it more than a cross peen.
A third hammer is a 3# blacksmith's hammer ( double faced).

The U-box Z-tongs Nick showed are my favorites,too.

Mounting an anvil is really not a problem. If it is big enough, you are really just keeping it in place, not holding it down. A couple of metal straps and some lag bolts are plenty. Mine is chained down. On my portable base, there is a raised frame, made from 2X4s ,that the anvil foot fits into. Saw the stump bottom with a very slight dish toward the center. That way it rests on the edges more. Setting it on a dirt (clay is best) floor will allow it to be leveled perfect. Crusher Run also makes a great smithy floor. After spreading it out and raking it nice and smooth, spray it with water and let it set. An occasional spritz will keep it packed. With lots of walking back and forth,it will eventually get nearly as hard and smooth as concrete.

Good blacksmiths or welders gloves are a good idea, but you will only use one on the tong hand. For a forging glove, use a batting glove or similar glove with the fingers cut off. You will only wear one of these,too. Find a lefty (or righty) to give the other set to.

Forget the welding helmet. Get a pair of forge work glasses from Aura lens. 2.0 or 2.5 are best. They can even be ordered in prescription and bi-focal.
http://www.auralens.net/e_gw_aur99_25.cfm
Stacy
 
Thanks for the advice guys! It is a big help. I know hammers and tongs get a lot of talk but I was hoping to narrow it down. Same with hammers. With all the different hammers I could get it nice to know what will get me started. I'm sure I'll have to many soon. hehe.
 
When I do a demo, I take a big bucket of hammers and sledges. People ask if i use all those hammers. I reply, "No, but they sure look neat, don't they."

For actual use ,I rarely use any other than three hammers.
I use a 1kg Hoffi hammer for most all my general shaping.
I use a 3# vertical peen for most of my drawing. ( and a matching 3# cross peen for the rest of the drawing needs)
I use a 2kg Hoffi for heavy movement.

Some comments:
Polished faces leave smoother surfaces.
Rounded corners and edges leave smoother surfaces.
Proper anvil height leaves smoother surfaces.
Smoother surfaces mean less grinding headaches.
Start with forging to about 70% finished...then grind the rest.Move to 80%...then 90%. You will always have some grinding to do, but the less hammer marks to grind out, the faster and better the job goes.

More hammer mass (or trying to swing the hammer harder) does not make the forging go better or faster. It just creates more deep dings. Use a comfortable weight hammer weight, let your arm and gravity do the forging. Let the forge heat the steel to THE CORRECT TEMPERATURE before hammering it. Properly heated steel will forge easily. If you are wailing away at it and seem to be working too hard, the steel may well not be hot enough. Remember - "Strike While the Iron is Hot." ....also remember ,"Quit when it isn't."
Stacy
 
Ok, I'm getting a cross and vertical peen. I keep seeing engineer's hammers. Is that the double faced blacksmith hammer? I assume I dont want a rounding hammer. I will also have to try making a squared ball peen. Do they preform different than the other square face smithing hammer such a french style?

Also I am about to order my tongs, the z box and box jaws. I am planning on working with Aldos 1084 wich is 1/4" by 1 1/2". Should I get 1 1/2" z box jaws or would a smaller size like 1 1/4 or 1"? Also if I buy 1" box jaws should I get the 3/8 or 5/16? I didn't know if matching them to you stock size exactly would give you enough grip on the stock.

Thanks again. I cant wait to get to the point where I can pound on some steel.
 
Nick, you are very hunched over in the fourth picture. Would it not be easier to raise the anvil a bit? Or am I missing something? Is there some kind of standard to determine optimum anvil height? I would think it is just what feels comfortable, hunched over like that does not look comfortable. I do not mean to hijack, but I would like to get into forging also and it seems like a pertinent question. Thank you.
Jay
 
The best way I've found to determine Anvil height is to stand with your shoulders square make a fist with your arm straight down. Your knuckles should just touch the top of the anvil. this way when you forge your arm still has a little bend to it. You don't have to stoop over as much. Just how I do it others may have a better way.
Check-out Nick's avitar.
 
I find it much more comfortable to forge for a long time with the anvil at wrist height instead of knuckle height, the extra 4 inches height makes a huge difference for me. That said, every one finds their own comfort zone for forging and what works best for them.
 
I have only been forging about three years and don't get to spend as much time doing it as I would like. I don't have a power hammer or press and don't know anybody that does. With that being said you will have a better idea of where I am coming from with this next comment. I don't think that anyone else has mentioned it but the 1 1/2 X 1/4 inch steel is pretty big stuff and will make a huge knife but with a lot of hammering. Or you can make a smaller knife with a lot more hammering. I would split some of it with a band saw. You can still make a big knife and it is a lot less work if you just have hammers and an anvil. If you start out with something smaller you will see success sooner

I just posted this picture in another thread of my anvils in a kind of compromising position, but it does give you an idea of how I have them mounted. The anvil on top fits the stand on the right. It has wooden blocks nailed to the top of the stand that fit in the cutouts in the base of the anvil. Use one on each side. The stand on the left, under the black anvil, will get blocks in the next day or so. The blocks hold the anvil securely and still lets you just pick up the anvil off the stand to move around or head out to a hammer-in. You don't need anything to hold it down just to keep it from sliding around on the stand. I also like to use some of the rubber drawer liner between the anvil and the stand to dampen the ring. A chain wrapped around the base also adds mass and really cuts down on the ringing.

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For the square face ball-pein what else did you do to other than making the round square ( that part I can see in the photo), that is did you change the hammering part. I would like to make one of these.
Cheers Ron.
 
Gah! don't buy those hammers, your hands and arms will thank you. You do NOT want a rubberized handle, or a fiberglass handle, or a metal handle, you want a smooth wooden handle. A rubberized handle will tear your hands to pieces as you forge with it, you don't want a slip-free grip for forging, you want a loose grip that can easily slide up and down the handle. A metal handle will transfer the shock of your blows into your arm and wreak havoc with your joints in the long run, a nice wooden handle has a good spring and give to it that dampens vibration transferred to your arm. A fiberglass handle has flex and will help dissipate the shock, but you cant shape a fiberglass handle with your grinder and sandpaper. You will almost never find a handle straight from the store that's 'right' for your grip and style, and to get the best use from a hammer you should always shape the handle to fit your grip and style comfortably to reduce blisters and discomfort.

EDIT: A good starter hammer is the craftsman 2.5lb crosspein http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00938262000P it comes with a nice hickory handle, and if you screw up the head it's guaranteed for life. You will need to dress the face, but you'll have to do that with any hammer you get anyways.
 
OK. So if I split my steel then I am even more confused about what give tongs to buy. What size z box jaws and box tongs should I get to get the most use out of them. I don't want to get a 40.00 pair of tongs only to find they don't work well with my stock. Even if a pair of 1 1/4" tongs hold my unsplit stock what happens when it's forged down to a more reasonable knife shape? Thanks for the help. I plan to get wood handled hammers and wish I could afford a hofi, they look sweet. I don't know what size z box jaws, and what width 1" box jaws to buy. I'm sure I'm over thinking this but at least I have the guys on this forum to steer me right.
 
Hi guys :)


Dustin, every set of box jaws I've seen is sized by the width. Meaning a 1" set holds stock that is 1" wide. And it should hold anything from very thin up to about 3/8" thick (comfortably).

For Z-box jaws, I'd say a pair of 1/4" X 1-1/4" or 1-1/2." You'll be forging the blade off the parent stock, so I would actually size your tongs to the size of knives you want to make just as much/more than the stock size.

I have to go to bed, but I can probably take some pics tomorrow after school with these tongs holding Aldo's steel, so you can get a better reference.

As per my anvil height. I am hunched over in that pick, but only because I wanted to get right down and see the arc I was putting in the blade.

My old anvil was "knuckle height." This one is about 3"-4" higher than that. I am around 5'10"-11" and this anvil face is ~33-1/2" high.

If you look at pic #6 (it's kinda hard to see) that's how I am standing for 90% of the forging, which is nearly straight up and down. :) If I was bent over like in pic #4 all the time, I would DEFINITELY raise it up. :)
 
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