Good drill press suggestions

my mini mill is HF if i was doig it again i woudl look hard at the LMS one cause i ended up with most of the upgrades they offer anyhow (belt drive is soo nice)
 
Pittknife said:
Same here, I wouldn't use the mini mill from HF for drilling holes. I spent a ton of time getting rid of the runout on the mini and the way it goes down is not very smooth. I use my g0704 though.
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I have better mills than HF and still prefer a drill press.
 
Fish30114 said:
Nathan, I know you know of what you speak, if one was looking for new, what machine would you recommend--under 1k.
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An old Bridgeport or clone. And they're often less expensive than even an import full size drill press. Most of the problems I've had using drill presses in the past are moot on a knee mill. I have no idea about harbor freight and toy mills, I never understood the value of them when real industrial surplus is cheap and plentiful across much of the country. My first mill was given to me.

There is generally much less runout and deflection, so drilled holes are more round, reamed holes have less bell mouth and more consistent diameter, countersinks and counterbores have less chatter and burrs, and tool life is longer. Some mills have a fine spindle feed where you can run the tool down to the work and park it there and bump (or feed!) the work around and line a drill point up to a mark. You can switch over to collets and hold larger tools like big reamers and countersinks. You can use an edge finder to quickly locate the edges of a workpiece and feed the table over to sink a hole exactly where you want it with accuracy and no drama. A 3 phase motor can be reversed in an instant for powered tapping. They often have a backgear with more torque than a modern machining center and can drive large taps. The depth stops are truly accurate and repeatable. They have powered down feed. The ability to spot, drill and bore a hole then feed to another position and repeat means accurate layouts are straight forward (try that on a DP). In a pinch you could even mill with one. Drill presses belong in fab and carpentry shops and anywhere that needs to mix a lot of paint. If you need a minimum of floor space for poking poor holes in unimportant work a DP is fine. If it's halfway important why not just use a BP mill?


edit to add: sorry, not trying to inflame the drill press lovers here. I'm not disparaging you or your work, I'm just not understanding why not use something that does the job easier for about the same amount of money? Yes, it's more complex and heavier <--- I think that's a good thing.
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
An old Bridgeport or clone. And they're often less expensive than even an import full size drill press. Most of the problems I've had using drill presses in the past are moot on a knee mill. I have no idea about harbor freight and toy mills, I never understood the value of them when real industrial surplus is cheap and plentiful across much of the country. My first mill was given to me.

There is generally much less runout and deflection, so drilled holes are more round, reamed holes have less bell mouth and more consistent diameter, countersinks and counterbores have less chatter and burrs, and tool life is longer. Some mills have a fine spindle feed where you can run the tool down to the work and park it there and bump (or feed!) the work around and line a drill point up to a mark. You can switch over to collets and hold larger tools like big reamers and countersinks. You can use an edge finder to quickly locate the edges of a workpiece and feed the table over to sink a hole exactly where you want it with accuracy and no drama. A 3 phase motor can be reversed in an instant for powered tapping. They often have a backgear with more torque than a modern machining center and can drive large taps. The depth stops are truly accurate and repeatable. They have powered down feed. The ability to spot, drill and bore a hole then feed to another position and repeat means accurate layouts are straight forward (try that on a DP). In a pinch you could even mill with one. Drill presses belong in fab and carpentry shops and anywhere that needs to mix a lot of paint. If you need a minimum of floor space for poking poor holes in unimportant work a DP is fine. If it's halfway important why not just use a BP mill?
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Spot on. I had started to type something similar, but this is the reason I use my knee mill for nearly all of my hole making. More stable, more accurate, more versatile, more power, bigger capacity (both tooling and work holding capacity), more speed options, etc....

The only times I use my table top DPs are when I'm drilling a lot of really tiny holes (I'm a little heavy handed and start getting in a hurry and breaking bits on a big old knee mill), or if I'm setting up some batch work and could benefit from a couple of extra machines going at once, though anymore I just swap tools in the mill.
 
Most of the holes I drill are less than 1/116" Use a lot of 0-80 screws. I like my little Jet bench top drill press. :cool:
 
I wish I had the floor space for a knee mill, or for that matter could find one for $250 bucks (what I paid for my drill press). All the used Bridgeports I see are at the very least a grand, most are 3-4 grand and then they are 220/3 phase. Even if I got past those obstacles, I'd have to pay freight and scrounge up a fork lift to get it into the shop. Most of the holes I drill are for Corby's or small pins, so a sloppy not quite round hole just creates a good reservoir for the epoxy to grab hold of. While I'd like to have that mill, when I look at all these factors, I'm very thankful to have my drill press.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Drill presses belong in fab and carpentry shops and anywhere that needs to mix a lot of paint.
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Every time I think to myself that the ShopTalk section has become a barren wasteland of selfish, thoughtless dolts, I'm reminded that there's a few bright spots that keep me coming back. :D


...or, perhaps those are flares I'm seeing from an aneurysm coming on.


I use a shitty drill press for all sorts of stuff. Namely, as Nathan describes - when it really doesn't matter. For ANYTHING else, it's done on my wee lil' Rusnok mill. If I had the real estate, I'd sell the Rusnok and buy a Bridgeport. Just don't have the real estate.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
An old Bridgeport or clone. And they're often less expensive than even an import full size drill press. Most of the problems I've had using drill presses in the past are moot on a knee mill. I have no idea about harbor freight and toy mills, I never understood the value of them when real industrial surplus is cheap and plentiful across much of the country. My first mill was given to me.

There is generally much less runout and deflection, so drilled holes are more round, reamed holes have less bell mouth and more consistent diameter, countersinks and counterbores have less chatter and burrs, and tool life is longer. Some mills have a fine spindle feed where you can run the tool down to the work and park it there and bump (or feed!) the work around and line a drill point up to a mark. You can switch over to collets and hold larger tools like big reamers and countersinks. You can use an edge finder to quickly locate the edges of a workpiece and feed the table over to sink a hole exactly where you want it with accuracy and no drama. A 3 phase motor can be reversed in an instant for powered tapping. They often have a backgear with more torque than a modern machining center and can drive large taps. The depth stops are truly accurate and repeatable. They have powered down feed. The ability to spot, drill and bore a hole then feed to another position and repeat means accurate layouts are straight forward (try that on a DP). In a pinch you could even mill with one. Drill presses belong in fab and carpentry shops and anywhere that needs to mix a lot of paint. If you need a minimum of floor space for poking poor holes in unimportant work a DP is fine. If it's halfway important why not just use a BP mill?


edit to add: sorry, not trying to inflame the drill press lovers here. I'm not disparaging you or your work, I'm just not understanding why not use something that does the job easier for about the same amount of money? Yes, it's more complex and heavier <--- I think that's a good thing.
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I'd Love to get the industrial stuff but some of the issues that causes us to get these benchtops:

1. No room, I can barely turn around in my little workshop as is and have no space.
2. Moving them, I don't have a truck to go and pick up any of these are the moving equipment. Most the guys that sale these seem to be far away and not interested in delivering.
3. Maintenance & parts, you have to be somewhat savvy and learn how to maintain the older machines. That is a good thing, but not for some of us who are barely hobbyist makers.
4. Power, not really a big issue but having to buy a phase converter for 3 phase vs just plugging into a wall socket is just another thing to worry about.

I think most guys shops are like mine, half of their garage, and with their wives breathing down there neck complaining about what looks like equipment hoarding already.....
 
Pittknife said:
I'd Love to get the industrial stuff but some of the issues that causes us to get these benchtops:

1. No room, I can barely turn around in my little workshop as is and have no space.
2. Moving them, I don't have a truck to go and pick up any of these are the moving equipment. Most the guys that sale these seem to be far away and not interested in delivering.
3. Maintenance & parts, you have to be somewhat savvy and learn how to maintain the older machines. That is a good thing, but not for some of us who are barely hobbyist makers.
4. Power, not really a big issue but having to buy a phase converter for 3 phase vs just plugging into a wall socket is just another thing to worry about.

I think most guys shops are like mine, half of their garage, and with their wives breathing down there neck complaining about what looks like equipment hoarding already.....
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if i had to split the differance ( i have both a mini mill and a "small" bridgeport ) and space was the deal along with weight the biggest dovetail "small" mill i coudl move if taken apart not sure what X# size that might be or if its the same for me and you something 2/3s the size of my bridgeport if built in the right way would be a knife makers dream
 
butcher_block said:
if i had to split the differance ( i have both a mini mill and a "small" bridgeport ) and space was the deal along with weight the biggest dovetail "small" mill i coudl move if taken apart not sure what X# size that might be or if its the same for me and you something 2/3s the size of my bridgeport if built in the right way would be a knife makers dream
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My first mill (that I still have) is mini X2, I broke down and ordered a grizzly g0704 which is a huge step up. Honestly, for someone only machining 1-2 years that is self taught getting a big mill won't make that much a difference. Messing up and learning on a cheaper mill will prepare you for the big one.

I definitely agree with Nathan in that if I could get a full size mill I would in a heartbeat, it is just not realistic for me right now. I'm out growing the g0704 already but for knives it can pretty much do anything I need besides doing inserts etc. You have to crawl before you can walk. The drill press comes in handy when I don't want to take down my setup on the mill, zeroing in a rotary table and your jigs take time. I mainly do clearance holes on the drill press and I like how fast the keyless chuck is vs the collets for the mill.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Drill presses belong in fab and carpentry shops and anywhere that needs to mix a lot of paint. If you need a minimum of floor space for poking poor holes in unimportant work a DP is fine.
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come on Nathan, you know good and well drill presses belong in machine shops too :-)
Burgmaster's are for machine shops :-)

http://www.nsmachine.com/11593-1.jpg

It's like Mike said about garage space etc. power, additional tooling required etc.
Some of us are fine drilling 1/8" dia holes thru 3/16" thick annealed blanks for about the $400 a used Craftsman or Buffalo DP costs.
A drill press is very appropriate for many makers. It makes a perfectly useable hole for a pin that will be peened.

I really think there is a big difference in startup costs and learning curve to get a mill.
Any maker will know when the time is right for them to upgrade to a mill solution

to the OP, I had a Buffalo 18 with runout within a few thousands, same with the vintage Craftsman I have.
so go old vintage USA made if you can,
 
I always feel sorry for you guys in the USA when I read a thread like this: having to decide which piece of crap China drill press is "better." Then wondering if you even need a drill press? Duh. Of course you need one, maybe more. But you need a good one and for some reason the Chinese have a terrible time making a good drill press even though they can make a usable, cheap small milling machine. Go figure.

Got a question for you all: Is there even one company left in the USA that actually makes a drill press?

I guess the USA-made used ones left out there must be getting pretty ratty by now. Or folks that have them just don't sell 'em.

In Germany there are quite a few companies making excellent drill presses, for example Maxion/Ixion, Flott and Altmetall just to mention a few. All of these brands are sold in the USA too, just not for $300. If you get a chance to pick up a used one by any of these companies, jump on it. They will last you a lifetime plus.

I can 100% say that if you get a chance to use a good drill press. you won't wonder if you need one, you'll wonder if one will be enough. I've snagged 4 over the years and none of them are for sale!

Here's a link to an action site that has quite a few in upcoming sales, just to whet your appetites...
http://www.netbid.com/en/auctions/line-of-business/10119950-Metal-Processing/
 
Nathan, I appreciate your feedback, I will start looking for older Bridgeports or clones---can a person self teach themselves enough to use one of these, or do I need to find a class at a Technical college nearby?
 
Fish30114 said:
Nathan, I appreciate your feedback, I will start looking for older Bridgeports or clones---can a person self teach themselves enough to use one of these, or do I need to find a class at a Technical college nearby?
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To fully utilize its capabilities, yeah you'd want to read up on machining. To use it as a drill press, no, drill holes.

Use safety common sense like you would any tool. I use a nut, bolt and T nut in a T slot to setup a stop to prevent helicopters. Don't drill into the table etc.

I actually don't mill with mine very often unless it's something like cutting a notch in a deck board and I don't want to get wood in a machining center. I mostly use it as a saw and as a drill press.

edit to add:

...and I use the vise on the table as, uh, a vise... Being a precision mill vise it can also be used as a press for flaring rivets, pressing pins etc. It keeps things square pretty well. That's also what I use to set cutlery rivets.

I use it all the time. One of the most used tools in the shop.
 
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For drilling and sinking holes, tapping with a tapping head, etc. a good drill press with a reliable down stop is sooooo much faster and easier than fooling around with a milling machine. I can't imagine any knife shop not having one or more and I've never seen any metalworking shop that didn't.

BTW: I just checked and Clausing is still in business in the USA and evidently still making machines there, including drill presses, you guys should them out and put some money into Made In the USA!
 
Kevin Wilkins said:
For drilling and sinking holes, tapping with a tapping head, etc. a good drill press with a reliable down stop is sooooo much faster and easier than fooling around with a milling machine. I can't imagine any knife shop not having one or more and I've never seen any metalworking shop that didn't.

BTW: I just checked and Clausing is still in business in the USA and evidently still making machines there, including drill presses, you guys should them out and put some money into Made In the USA!
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I agree with all that...
 
Fish30114 said:
Nathan, I appreciate your feedback, I will start looking for older Bridgeports or clones---can a person self teach themselves enough to use one of these, or do I need to find a class at a Technical college nearby?
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There's a set of videos put out by AGI on Milling Machines and Lathes. Darrel Holland does a really good job of walking through things. If you can find a copy of the vids, I'd highly recommend them. Once you familiarize yourself with the basics, it's pretty straight forward from there, at least when you're talking about things you need to do for general knife making.

I'd also recommend subbing to some of the "bigger" machining channels on youtube for some good tips and tricks. oxtoolco, mrpete222, metal tips and tricks, etc...
 
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