Good enough to start hand sanding?

DustinY

DustinY

Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
754
Okay, quick questions and hopefully some answers. I'll do some self critiques, but for the first blade i've ground after heat treat (used a jig) i think it went OKAY. I'm learning that everything is about having an executable game plan that is repeatable. Flats are 60 grit (which i might have to run over with 220 huh?) and the bevels are 220.

1. Plunges - to far back? I'm not sure, and wasn't really sure how this was supposed to go, look, or be, i think i went to far back? Also not perfectly even, neither are the grinds, but hey.

2. Grinds - Uneven and some issues but i think i know how to better tackle this when i gear up to do the next one, something i know that will help immediately is not doing MASSIVE FUCKING blades.

So my questions are:

1. Can i move to edm stoning and hand sanding? I have some 220 stones but i think i'm going to start at 320 - 400 - 600 stones then move to paper. Will i be able to hide the plunges & everything with enough elbow grease?

2. Crowning the spine post HT - anyone have a good recommendation on this, doesn't Nick Wheeler have a tutorial? I'm going to crown it i think, or try, and then do that to the choil area where the index finger will come in contact.

3. Do i scrap it as learning material, and move to the next one - with the improvements i know i can make - better game plan - and keep the plunges more forward?


Cd8mJLL.jpg


Qo0j8V3.jpg



Regards,

Dustin Young
 
Is it a kitchen knife? How thick is the spine?

if it’s a kitchen knife I would just move the shoulder forward and try to get rid of the plunge. Personally I don’t care for plunges on kitchen knives anyway.

Crowning the spine you can do several ways depending on what the thickness is.

why do you want to hand sand all those grits? Why not do that on the belt grinder?
 
HSC /// said:
Is it a kitchen knife? How thick is the spine?

if it’s a kitchen knife I would just move the shoulder forward and try to get rid of the plunge. Personally I don’t care for plunges on kitchen knives anyway.

Crowning the spine you can do several ways depending on what the thickness is.

why do you want to hand sand all those grits? Why not do that on the belt grinder?
Click to expand...


It is a kitchen knife, very stout stock at .130” behind the spine.

how high should I take it on the grinder before moving to hand sanding/end stones? Good reference material or links to crown the spine?
 
HSC /// said:
Is it a kitchen knife? How thick is the spine?

if it’s a kitchen knife I would just move the shoulder forward and try to get rid of the plunge. Personally I don’t care for plunges on kitchen knives anyway.

Crowning the spine you can do several ways depending on what the thickness is.

why do you want to hand sand all those grits? Why not do that on the belt grinder?
Click to expand...

also, you mean push the plunge to the top, like FULL FLAT GRIND IT? Can I take the plunge into the area where the blade will mate with the handle? That’s okay?
 
Don't scrap it by any means - it will make a very nice kitchen knife. BUT - I do think the plunge line is too far back. Normally the plunge line should stop around back of cutting edge and not extend thru the ricasso. That is my understanding anyway, other folks may have other comments on where the plunge line should be.
 
Take the belts to the highest grit you can before hand sanding and make sure you have all the previous grits out. 220 of the grinder you will be sanding for many hours to clean it up. Plunge is definately to far back. Try to get the top of you grinds even on both sides. Don't scrap it because there's still a lot you can try and fix still. Making mistakes is how you get better. That will still make a good user for yourself.
 
The thing that concerns me the most is the flat being uneven and not not matching on both sides.

If you can't even out the flats, just eliminate them, you can always try again next knife.
 
Randy3000 said:
The thing that concerns me the most is the flat being uneven and not not matching on both sides.

If you can't even out the flats, just eliminate them, you can always try again next knife.
Click to expand...

I thought i'd be able to hide it with hand sanding, i could be wrong.
 
DustinY said:
It is a kitchen knife, very stout stock at .130” behind the spine.

how high should I take it on the grinder before moving to hand sanding/end stones? Good reference material or links to crown the spine?
Click to expand...

carve flats on the spine using the lengthwise platen
I'm showing you a cross section of the .13 thick spine

then shoeshine polish with microfinishing film.

you can see on my video here at 2:51 -

ZR3rFmM.jpg
 
DustinY said:
Much love for the advice, i literally love all your work and to get some input from you (especially so detailed), means a lot. Thank you.
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I'm happy to assist, many have helped me
but what I don't understand is how do you keep your hands so clean.....? just kidding :p:D
 
and good analysis and self critique, about a game plan and smaller blades.
I'm doing a batch of a new steel and decided to do 6 170mm pettys, what I felt I could manage and do well at (for now)

JUVAfZc.jpg
 
HSC /// said:
and good analysis and self critique, about a game plan and smaller blades.
I'm doing a batch of a new steel and decided to do 6 170mm pettys, what I felt I could manage and do well at (for now)

JUVAfZc.jpg
Click to expand...


Great video and thanks for the follow up - for the microlapping just start at like 400 - and go through grits?
 
Yea, I would just eliminate the flats by grinding up to the spine at the plunges, and then shorted the ricasso about half its current length. I would also narrow it a bit at the ricasso by about 3/16". In this case, getting rid of the flats by taking the bevels full height from plunge forward, and then grinding away the flats just behind the plunge, will mean that you will have to create a slight "V" shaped slot in the front of your bolster/handle material since the ricasso will also have a slight bevel in it. While it's not very common in western blades, it's often used in Japanese and European swords and other knives like the puukko.

Just drill the first hole at the spine side of the bolster ("ferrule") with a bit slightly smaller in diameter than the thickness of the spine, and the drill a hole at the bottom of the slot using a bit slightly smaller in diameter than the thickness of the bottom of the ricasso. You could then use the same bit as you did for the bottom to drill out the material between the two holes and then file the slow to shape with needle file. It's take some work to get clean, but I think it's a good idea to always try your best on the your current knife rather than to save the effort for the next one, at least while learning and developing your skills... unless it been completely trashed and ruined for whatever reason, then it's fine to move on to the next ;)

You can always use a thinner (spacer-sized) material for the bolster on this one to save on all the extra fit up, unless you are able to drill or mill out a decent sized cavity on the back three quarters of the bolster material to avoid needing to file the entire thickness to match the ricasso, which isn't that hard depending on the material up front, especially if it's wood.

With regard to hand sanding, do you have any structured abrasive belts to use for higher grits (Norax, Trizact etc.)? You can easily get up to at least ~600 grit with those. I would probably skip the EDM stones on this one, unless you decide to keep the flats on the blade, then those would be able to help clean up the transition lines (shinogi). Using paper will produce just enough give to help blend in and flatness inconsistencies in the bevels if ya go full flat. Also, just curious, what size are the stones you have, and do ya know the specific type/material they are?

ETA: You would be able to blend in the flats while hand sanding, but the grind at the ricasso is still a bit low and would take a decent amount of sanding/stoning. I personally think it would be easier to just take it full flat as described above and go a little bit higher in grits if you plan on grinding off the flat ricasso area. This is all just my humble opinion of course.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Some older vids of some of the older knives I made)
 
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Here is a quick example of what I meant by drilling out the extra material from most of the backside on the front of the handle or bolster etc and leaving about 1/4" if wood or down to ~3/32" if using a thicker piece of metal for a bolster. Kinda hard to see but I think it'll help illustrate the point. This was a dowel construction, but the hole in the front piece is deeper than the length of the extended dowel:





~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (Some older vids of some of the older knives I made)
 
Definitely finish it. Even if the plunges are nit what you wanted, heat treat it and use it. You will learn about balance, taper, handle shape and angle, edge geometry etc.

kitchen knives aren’t hard to make, but making a great kitchen knife requires a lot of knowledge regarding the little details. That comes from making a ton of them and using them.
 
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