Good Karma VS Evil

HE is controlled, Wrongfriend. He doesn't want to think of what he could do to someone. He doesn't want to land a single blow. I think he is a violent person. I think martial arts was the way he took charge. He no longer studies Karate, but Tae Won Do and Nin Jit su, (sic). He's over 50.

In many ways he reminds me of the hunter who can no longer tolerate inflicting pain upon an animal, but wants a quick kill or nothing. He does not want to live with the consequences of landing a blow unless the circumstances are grave. Why this should mean no khukuris is a question only he can answer.

I knew a Marine sniper, WWll, (against the Japanese- small world, Wrongfriend! Yours and my world now) who never picked up a rifle again, even to go hunting.

An individual decision.

I had a friend whose son killed himself with a .22 Several times he had the .22 in a vice ready to destroy it. After a year of mourning, he gave the little Colt to me.

munk
 
I've just finished speaking to my friend, and as I suspected, I have not correctly interpreted his decision about blades.

One area which did come up in our conversation and is worth bringing here: do you 'tap into' negative Karma by involvement with instruments? Will things come your way you'd rather not by participation in Khukuris or Katana's or? Superstition?

munk
 
There's a crazy, counterproductive, destructive tendency theswe days to try and transfer the guilt from the intention to the action, or even the object. We can't handle the fact that society is breaking down all round us, and that our fellow human beings can no longer be trusted to act like civilised people; the implications of that truth are too depressing for us to cope with. Instead, we blame things for what people do with them. This is medieval thinking; in the Middle Ages, animals, sometimes even inanimate objects, were "tried" in courts of law and "found guilty" of causing death or damage; whereupon they were "executed" with all due pomp and ceremony. This bizarre behavior reached a peak in the disastrous 14th century, when the well-ordered society of medieval Europe was crashing apart in ruins, thanks to such causes as the Black Death, widespread famine, disenchantment with religious corruption, &c. It's hard to avoid the conclusion that the wheel has come full circle, as society "tries" and "convicts" objects and activities rather than face up to its problems.
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Nicely put as usual Tom.

Interesting thread.


One area which did come up in our conversation and is worth bringing here: do you 'tap into' negative Karma by involvement with instruments? Will things come your way you'd rather not by participation in Khukuris or Katana's or? Superstition?
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If that is true I'd be very afraid of that .22 you now own. I don't think that Karma attaches to objects--but that's just a gut feeling. I know about as much about Karma as I do about Nuclear Engineering (ie, nothing).

I think (as others have said) that your friend is seeing into his true self via the khukuri, that is, it brings out in him the parts of his personality he's trying to erase or at least control.

My .02$
 
No Rob, not attaching to objects. The clothes we wear influence how we and others see us. The things we do and say, and the instruments we carry, also.


as for the .22...my dear deceased old friend of Powder River Engine Works, understood me well. "I know you couldn't have taken this a year ago. (at his son's death) But can now. I wanted it to be used the way it was meant to be and not connected to _________. "


I may never tell my son's its history. Just the little field take anywhere .22 for small game and cans.


munk
 
I find as I reduce the size of the wood handles and recarve the rings ( done it on a M43 and a 19" village sirupati ) they become more of a part of me - more integrated into me. Even if they do become more efficient destructive devices.

I have a 2 1/2" barrel Model 19 S&W that I've modified to become a better stopping machine. Bobbed hammer, smoothed trigger face, opened rear sight notch, internal trigger job, custom grips. I've used it practising til it shot loose and needs to be tightened. And I have other pistols for the sole purpose of "stopping" quasi-human life forms in extreme situations. The fact that these have been modified to better place their shots under stress increases the chance they will kill in the act of stopping. They place shots more closely to center more accurately, and faster.

I've come to understand myself as being a generally kind, excellent listener and observer, non-judgemental, professionally trained social worker, with underlying no nonsense reactions from professional expertise, and humbled through my own personal flaws and limitations to become tolerant and accepting of other people. I've keyed into accepting and acting on "spiritual guidance" for lack of a better definition when I don't understand consciously what's going on and repeatedly seen it work. I've also spent much time, thought, training, and practice in observing signs and keys to escalating violence and appropriate response with lethal force. Enough to trust my trained reactions there also.

In short, I control the means to do permanent and horribly lethal violence and don't fear misusing them. I plan to survive and later seek spiritual, psychological and psychiatric medication if needed. I'm sure I will react to the deep conflict between the fundamental of " first do no harm " that I've tried very hard to live by and the law of survival that says "If you're sure he's dead, shoot him again and be dead sure."

But I will be the one alive to handle the emotional problems. And that's the sum of my 25 + years of thinking on the subject. Sorry to be long winded.
 
But I will be the one alive to handle the emotional problems. And that's the sum of my 25 + years of thinking on the subject. Sorry to be long winded.
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Posts like that need no apology IMHO. Thanks for posting that.
 
This subject is getting trickier and slippery.

Rusty, my friend isn't talking about saving his life. He can defend himself, no problem. No moral problem either. Let me suggest this to you another way. When a logger goes into the forest, he sees the woods the way a logger does, with an eye towards timber harvest. When a hunter goes into the woods, he see's the forest the way a hunter will, with an eye towards the game harvest and all associated interelationships, like time of year, ground cover and forage, water supply....when a hiker goes into the forest, he sees animals and butterflies and what not, but isn't looking for food or timber. It is the same forest, but we are different people at different times. I don't see the same details in the world when rock collecting as I do when shooting.

I disagree with my friend, but I think he worries he will see the world as a slicer and a dicer if he trains with a blade.

... ... ...

Rob brought up another point, which I said 'no' to because that wasn't what I meant at the time. I've gotten to thinking about it though, and I wish I hadn't been so quick.... Putting it with MauRobs's idea, how would you feel cutting the nightly steak for the family with the same knife Dahlmer used to carve his young homosexual victims into filets with before nibbling on them?

So, as Bill says, a rock is a rock, and you can think about most anything anyway you want to, why stop at Khukuris or blades?

But the truth seems to be we do have some emotional ties to our tools that aren't neccesarily logical.

munk
 
Originally posted by munk

I disagree with my friend, but I think he worries he will see the world as a slicer and a dicer if he trains with a blade.


munk
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I get the impression that committed martial artists use their chosen discipline as a form of meditation, whose essential purpose is to find out the truth about themselves.

It may be that, for your friend, the sword-blade is a mirror in which he catches a glimpse of a part of himself he doesn't like the look of. In which case, I don't know what to suggest. If there is such a facet to his character, and he's had the good sense and the courage to identify it through the pursuit of martial arts, at least he's now in a position to do something about dealing with it. That's good.

But the notion that you can catch violence from an inanimate object as though it's some kind of contagious disease doesn't work for me.
 
Munk.
Bill is right. From the club to nuclear fission, it is not the tool that is important, but rather, one's purpose and attitude as the tool is used. The tool does not use us. What comes from the use of the tool is what we put into it.
In deciding how to expend our very limited time and energy, how others view our actions is not nearly as important as whether the thought, word or deed reflect and support our world view. If so, proceed. If not, don't.
Kipling had it right when, after living in India for a long period of time, said in his poem "IF" the following: "If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, and make allowance for their doubting too...."
When it is our right, (and duty), to survive - we must, and will do so. When it's time to make sense of it all .... well, we should do that too.
Thank's for the invitation to the forum. You were right, I enjoyed reading your perception of what I going on in my life, as well as all of the reponses to your query. You are an unusual group of men.
 
And my welcome to you also, Abeck.

You'll find that you've entered a forum that sometimes can be compared to housewives gossiping over the back fence. And that is a useful part of our forum. What is seldom mentioned is that in the early part of the century such gossiping allowed people to find out the sense of the community and establish moral boundaries based on "what if" so and so had done it this way or that, would it have been better or worse. Socially the gossip sessions enabled real life discussion of things only referred to otherwise in churches as leading to the condemnation of souls to hell.

Same with teenagers talking for hours on the phone. The ability to float ideas and then deny them if they didn't fly let us feel out the boundaries when we were teens.

Munk expressed well at least his own perceptions of his friend's reservations. Each of us has a comfort zone in which he is used to operating. There are times for going beyond those zones, and other times not to stretch our boundaries. It should be our own choice to make and not that of others.

I'm becoming too pompous and profound, so it must be time for my medication.
 
munk, I've got another few idea.

Sword practice is aimed at life taking. If one seriously think about it, a tool for chores knife will not look very respectful to aim with to one's life.

As far as my little knowledge about kenjutsu, it compells practitioner special moving method, soft but not weak. Practitioner is supposed not to stress katana by moving, swinging, and hitting. A khukuri seemed the most contrary blade. A purist type katana practitioner might look at khukuri as most brutal weapon because it's tough, utilization of inertia and momentum, which is almost inhibition in katana manipulating.

It could be more spiritual reason, but I'd poke around more physical and mental reasons.

Last but not least, welcome to the Cantina, abeck!
Attitide to a tool is the most important, yes. Somohow good khukuris could manage to gather good guys (and gals) to the Cantina. There could be more than functionality within HI khukuris... it's my superstition.
 
Practitioner is supposed not to stress katana by moving, swinging, and hitting. A khukuri seemed the most contrary blade. A purist type katana practitioner might look at khukuri as most brutal weapon because it's tough, utilization of inertia and momentum, which is almost inhibition in katana manipulating>>

Thank you for this. This is fascinating. If I understand, with a khukuri, you must commit? An assertive weapon?


munk
 
In Japanese Bushido the sword represents the soul of the warrior. Even in some Japanese legends, the hero is saved when he discovers in his sword the reflection of the real evil he is confronting; so I can understand that he does not like the refection he is getting back from the Kukuhri.
In Aikido and by extension in Aiki-ken and even in Kendo most of the techniques and movements made with the sword, the stick or the lance, can be made and are as effective when done bare-handed. He might see the kukuhri more brutal in that sense
 
In an MA style, there must be policies of movement based on its strategy. Some say you must stand firm, hit hard, utilize speed and mass. Many classic style katana manipulation say you must stand like a feather, because you are confronting a sword. Do not resist, but dodge. Make your katana also a feather, which is pulled where your opponent moves. For me a khukuri looks the most mass utilizing weapon (in terms of weapon). The way is sophisticated througn thousands of years to highest degree. Quite understandable Ghorka soldiers are such formidable with khukuri in his hand. But for some katana practitioners, the blade may spoil his effort to be a feather.

However, Me, here in HI forum, can't get any substancial idea how I can be such a feather.....
 
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