Got a few questions on this handle remodel job

[Mr opinionated]

I am no bladesmith. Just trying to replace the Polypropylene handles on the Cold Steel 2 handed machete. Upon removal of handle I ended up more confused than ever. My questions are this. Keep in mind I am working with basic hand and power tools. And have construction (Not knife building) experience.
1. Would Micarta or G10 be good for this style of blade? Will it be shock resistant upon strikes into hard wood? If not. Could you recommend something aside Neoprene handles that would look nice and absorb shock?
2. How do I measure the holes in this in order to add brass pins or screw in nuts / bolts? Or is it even feasible? Is these 2 factory holes all I need or will they not be enough and cause separation of handle slabe?
3. How would I measure the holes diameter in order to find pins to fit it?
4.Is it possible to add any sort of guard to this purely for aesthetics?
5. Where can I find 10 inch long Micarta or G10 handle slabs? I looked in a few online stores and did not find anything.
6. Or would I be better off doing a handle wrap in place of adding Micarta or G10 scales as it may be too complicated for a novice. Or not possible to do with this handle or lack of specialty tools / knowledge?

Some specs of my machete.
Weight:

21.1oz

Blade Thickness:

2mm

Blade Length:

21in

Blade Steel:

1055 Carbon Steel with Black Baked-On Anti Rust Matte Finish

Handle Length/Material:

9in Long Polypropylene

Overall Length:

30in

Additional Features:

Cor-Ex® Sheath


Here are a few pictures of the Polypropylene handle I removed. I want to make this simple as possible and yet have a halfway nice looking handle.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[Richard338]

I would start by sanding the handle part of the steel to get it clean and rough. Say 80 grit.
You can and should use pins that are smaller than the holes in the steel. It will be easier to fit up and the epoxy will fill in. The holes in your handle material should snugly fit the pins. Just get some stainless steel rod and a drill about 0.003" bigger. For example, 3/16" rod and .189" drill.
I don't know how much stuff you want to buy, but a good shock absorbing handle is a thin micarta liner with rubber horse stall mat over it. I did a big chopper like that and you could swing it all day.
Glue it up with something like T88 system three.
Jantz sells micarta.

 

[Mr opinionated]

I would start by sanding the handle part of the steel to get it clean and rough. Say 80 grit.
You can and should use pins that are smaller than the holes in the steel. It will be easier to fit up and the epoxy will fill in. The holes in your handle material should snugly fit the pins. Just get some stainless steel rod and a drill about 0.003" bigger. For example, 3/16" rod and .189" drill.
I don't know how much stuff you want to buy, but a good shock absorbing handle is a thin micarta liner with rubber horse stall mat over it. I did a big chopper like that and you could swing it all day.
Glue it up with something like T88 system three.
Jantz sells micarta.

Would it be feasable to use neoprene or rubber stall mat on the inside and add Micarta to the outside for looks? Just curious.

 

[Richard338]

In that case skip the stall mat and go straight micarta. Terotuf is another option.
I like the stall mat on a heavy user though.
I wouldn't put anything over it.
You can search competition choppers to see more handle ideas.

 

[Mr opinionated]

I

In that case skip the stall mat and go straight micarta. Terotuf is another option.
I like the stall mat on a heavy user though.
I wouldn't put anything over it.
You can search competition choppers to see more handle ideas.

I would love stall mat if I could find it in different colors aside for black.
A good bright green, purple, burgundy, or red would be nice.

 

[Hengelo_77]

I used to make orthopaedic shoes. We had lots of coloured rubber in different hardnesses. That might be a lead.

 

[Taz]

G10 Sure Touch has alternating layers of rubber and G10. You may need to get a 5x12 piece of it for the handle length. Some places sell micarta/g10 in 10-11" long pieces 1.5" wide instead of a set of 5" long scales.

#12 bit for 3/16" pins, F drill bit for 1/4" pins, #30 drill bit for 1/8" pins for clearance holes.

You can epoxy the handle scales on after cleaning up the tang to get clean rough metal for better adhesion. I am not sure if the handle would be too narrow that way (spine to edge narrow) since the original handle covered the tang completely?

You can also grind the tang down a bit narrower (not much, and no sharp corners!) and do a frame tang handle (3 piece sandwich handle) where there is a spacer cut that the tang fits tightly in (no exposed metal) and then scales are attached to each side and then shaped. I would want around 1/8" or wider around the tang for the spacer thickness for strength or leave the new handle taller?

 

[Mr opinionated]

I used to make orthopaedic shoes. We had lots of coloured rubber in different hardnesses. That might be a lead.

Thanks for the Idea. It was not too long ago I was in an Orthopedic air cast recovering from serious bunion surgery.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I kind of agree with Taz's last paragraph, would have posted the same suggestion if he had not, however, my first thought would have been to go even further. I cannot see much point in removing the existing handle if all one is going to do is replace it with Micarta in exactly the same shape (doing it as if it were a full tang, so smaller than the original seems even worse).

If you were to grind the whole tang down to a narrower rectangle you would free yourself from the yoke of following the (low cost) design choices used by the manufacturer. You could shape the handle with much more freedom and no appreciable loss of strength. If you have a router I would consider a morticed tang in wood, rather than Micarta. The problem with most commonly available Micarta (and similar) is they are rather thin for a full size handle, especially if used on a hidden tang of some kind. Making a frame tang helps, but wood is cheaper, thicker, more shock resistant, easier to work with and while not as strong in itself, glue joins are often stronger than the wood itself.

What do I mean by full size, well, my small axe has a handle width of about 0.9" and all my parangs, even the native made one that is sized for Asian hands, are over 1" thick mid grip.

My experience is that chopping tools like this do not need rubber handles. The tool works best when it is able to move in the hand, not held with a fixed tight grip, as used in Blade Sport, which is where I believe the horse-stall mat handles gained popularity. A grippy rubber handle risks blistering the hand in field use. Shock absorption is needed, and Micarta isn't as good as wood, and G10 is worse, so that Sure Touch stuff might be better, but I would still use wood. Osage, locust, ash, hickory, pecan, hard maple, beech, would all work and be both strong enough and durable. The hardest woods are still softer and easier to shape than Micarta when working by hand.

An example of a shorter tang in an ash handle showing what you can do with a handle when not constrained by a manufactured tang profile. Overall tool length about 21.5".
Billhook comp by Last Scratch, on Flickr

Best of luck

Chris

 

[fishface5]

Chris makes good points. A smooth contoured wood handle is better for a machete so it can move a bit in the hand while swinging, without rough spots. If you don't want the hassle of morticing you could frame the tang in a piece of micarta which would also provide visual contrast.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I am no bladesmith. Just trying to replace the Polypropylene handles on the ...Keep in mind I am working with basic hand and power tools....
1. Would Micarta or G10 be good for this style of blade? Will it be shock resistant upon strikes into hard wood? If not. Could you recommend something aside Neoprene handles that would look nice and absorb shock?
2. How do I measure the holes in this in order to add brass pins or screw in nuts / bolts? Or is it even feasible? Is these 2 factory holes all I need or will they not be enough and cause separation of handle slabe?
3. How would I measure the holes diameter in order to find pins to fit it?
4.Is it possible to add any sort of guard to this purely for aesthetics?
5. Where can I find 10 inch long Micarta or G10 handle slabs? I looked in a few online stores and did not find anything.
6. Or would I be better off doing a handle wrap in place of adding Micarta or G10 scales as it may be too complicated for a novice. Or not possible to do with this handle or lack of specialty tools / knowledge?
...

1. Hidden tang, fully encased in wood, ample shock resistance. Rubber, well, it seems like if you are touching the steel at an exposed tang, you will feel it upon impact.
2. Number of pins. Probably enough. I don't like full tang like this, but Martindale sells machetes and similar all over the world and uses just a couple bolts.
3. Usually use a set of Vernier callipers to measure stuff like this. I have two sets, one in the house and one in the shop and they get used all the time, nearly every home improvement job. They are more than worth having. Failing that, use paper on top or the tang, and scribble back and forth pencil over the top. Like making a brass rubbing, the pencil should pick up the sharp corners of the holes, then use a good ruler to measure the rubbing. Should get you close. Designers tend to try to use round numbers, just remember that they could be metric or inch.
4. If you make it a hidden tang, yes, but could be fiddly. If it is full tang, not so easy and possibly not advisable. Part of the problem is you are using hand tools, so no mill, and filing a 2mm wide slot in guard thickness material can be a bit of a PITA. An open top guard, as used on full tang knives, would require drilling a pin hole in the tang, which will be annoying in hard steel, and put a weakness right where you do not want one.
5. https://knifemaking.com/collections...icarta-handle-material?variant=28303842705508
6. Handle wrap, as in cord? No shock resistance, very little durability unless epoxy soaked, hand shredding friction...not really any plus sides.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Chris makes good points. A smooth contoured wood handle is better for a machete so it can move a bit in the hand while swinging, without rough spots. If you don't want the hassle of morticing you could frame the tang in a piece of micarta which would also provide visual contrast.

I like frame tanging too Easier when the tang matches an available stock thickness of Micarta or G10 though. 2mm = 0.0787", which is between inch sizes.
https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/shop/black-g10

Frame Tang by Last Scratch, on Flickr

 

[Mr opinionated]

1. Hidden tang, fully encased in wood, ample shock resistance. Rubber, well, it seems like if you are touching the steel at an exposed tang, you will feel it upon impact.
2. Number of pins. Probably enough. I don't like full tang like this, but Martindale sells machetes and similar all over the world and uses just a couple bolts.
3. Usually use a set of Vernier callipers to measure stuff like this. I have two sets, one in the house and one in the shop and they get used all the time, nearly every home improvement job. They are more than worth having. Failing that, use paper on top or the tang, and scribble back and forth pencil over the top. Like making a brass rubbing, the pencil should pick up the sharp corners of the holes, then use a good ruler to measure the rubbing. Should get you close. Designers tend to try to use round numbers, just remember that they could be metric or inch.
4. If you make it a hidden tang, yes, but could be fiddly. If it is full tang, not so easy and possibly not advisable. Part of the problem is you are using hand tools, so no mill, and filing a 2mm wide slot in guard thickness material can be a bit of a PITA. An open top guard, as used on full tang knives, would require drilling a pin hole in the tang, which will be annoying in hard steel, and put a weakness right where you do not want one.
5. https://knifemaking.com/collections...icarta-handle-material?variant=28303842705508
6. Handle wrap, as in cord? No shock resistance, very little durability unless epoxy soaked, hand shredding friction...not really any plus sides.

Bud I sure do appreciate your input and taking the time to explain the pros and cons of each idea. I think I am going to buy some purplish stabilized wood slabs or Micarta. did find a pair of Vernier Calipers and I am just a very small smidgeon below 10 millimeters.

I thought about copying my previous handle slabs and keeping it simple.
I also am thinking on using bolts instead of pins since I prefer the simplicity. My only worry is not having a 3 hole set up like found on most bowie knives. The top part of handle may be prone to loosening. I may do some fancy paracord wrap in a nice ball at the front of handle and epoxy soak it to make a makeshift guard.

I do have a drill press, Vice, palm and belt sander, files, Dremel with 150 piece kit, and pretty much all the basic tools for construction and some automotive.
What I do not have is specific knife making tools. or major grade tools.

But yes I decided I should keep this simple and not try to make a turd look like Excalibur lol.

 

[Bigfattyt]

Micarta is certainly tough enough. So is G10.

 

[Natlek]

I

I would love stall mat if I could find it in different colors aside for black.
A good bright green, purple, burgundy, or red would be nice.

What is wrong with black rubber ?
Contact cement and pins from rubber ............ On that Parang I think this will be the fourth year since i changed the wooden handles , no sign of failure so far .
Nothing is better than rubber on tools like these .....nothing !

 

[Mr opinionated]

What is wrong with black rubber ?
Contact cement and pins from rubber ............ On that Parang I think this will be the fourth year since i changed the wooden handles , no sign of failure so far .
Nothing is better than rubber on tools like these .....nothing !

I don't wanna use black rubber. Not my preference. Solid black is too common. And in my opinion solid black has been overkill for years and not a good looking material. What is wrong that I may prefer another color aside for black?

With that said. If I do not find the micarta or wood scales I want. With a different color. I may have no choice but to use black rubber mat.
And what is with this emphasis on the end of your comment ........Nothing. As if nothing else exists or works but your opinion. Reminds me of the Cold Steel fanboys who had to emphasize the Tri Ad lock being the strongest.....Period.

I am not really getting into the attitude and overbearing demeanor you are giving me because I may have a different view or prefer a different color or handle material. I think it is time I hit ignore as I do not wish to have any more conflict or future issues with you and end up getting banned from Blade Forums over trivial shit.

I do highly suggest however in future dialogue in both online and face to face communication to work a bit on expressing your views without being so overbearing and also trying to compromise and understand others reasons for their views or differences.

I never said you had to agree with me or anyone else. But being smug and overbearing is uncalled for.

 

[Richard338]

You didn't really say what happened to the original handle, whether it broke or you didn't like it.
Looking up these Cold Steel machetes, they seem to run about $40.
The cheapest fix is to buy a new one.
When I make a large chopper or sword from scratch, not counting my time, I usually have hundreds into materials, heat treat, extra tools etc.
On the other hand if you are determined to fix this one, there are lots of options in handle materials.
Your first effort is unlikely to turn out perfect though...

 

[Mr opinionated]

You didn't really say what happened to the original handle, whether it broke or you didn't like it.
Looking up these Cold Steel machetes, they seem to run about $40.
The cheapest fix is to buy a new one.
When I make a large chopper or sword from scratch, not counting my time, I usually have hundreds into materials, heat treat, extra tools etc.
On the other hand if you are determined to fix this one, there are lots of options in handle materials.
Your first effort is unlikely to turn out perfect though...

Yes it is cheaper to buy another one. I cut off the handle after I hit a 1 inch limb and the vibration from the polypropylene shot through my hand straight to my elbow.
I am just wanting to do a project and try out some wood or micarta and see what I can conjure up.
And to work on my crafting skills a bit.
I know it won't be perfect but I do think I can do a better job with replacing the handle than the one that came with it.
I am leaning towards some Teak or white Oak slabs.
Stained purple with a guard made from paracord wrap soaked in epoxy shaped in a ball.
Kind of like a monkey fist wrap.
I may even try to add some thin rubber inserts between the wood slabs to see if that will help with vibration.
It will be a few more days before I decide on the handle material. And a lot of thought.
I am going to try to keep this project at the $50 - $75 range.
As I realize this Machete new is around $40 at most.
And not worth putting a few hundred into.

 

[Richard338]

The guard you want is called a Turk's head knot. There are some YouTube tutorials. It's bloody annoying as you have to watch it about 10 times to follow and get it right, but they look good and you can soak it in resin also.

 

[Mr opinionated]

The guard you want is called a Turk's head knot. There are some YouTube tutorials. It's bloody annoying as you have to watch it about 10 times to follow and get it right, but they look good and you can soak it in resin also.

Thank you very much for clarifying that. I had no idea what it was called. I have done some paracord work in past.
I was curious if I could use polyurethane from Home Depot to soak the para cord in? If not. Is there anything sold there
that I could use?