Got a look at the Swisstool Spirit today

JOOLIESEWS · Mar 21, 2005

Ramirez said:
I do like the re-engineered scissors though, if there is one weakness in Victorinox it is that damn spring.

I'm looking at the close-up of the scissors in the expedition exchange review:

https://www.expeditionexchange.com/victor/

I haven't handled a Spirit yet, but from what I can see here, those scissors should pretty well obsolete the scissors on every other multitool on the market.

~Bob

ckl · Mar 22, 2005

hey guys,dun be fool with just the pic of the spirit scissor....

i used to believe it is gd,but after using it a while,i can say the new design is SUCK!

the spring is still like the old leaf spring that is bended when it is closed to the handle....so it will break someday when the metal is exhaust.but u are doomed to send it back to the factory since u cannot change the spring of it like the old one.... :barf:

also,it's cutting area is reduced and the mouth can't open wide enough!!!the efficiency of the scissor of spirit is a joke!

btw,there is some minor improvements should be mentioned:

they get rid of the useless big flat screwdriver, and make each tools had individual spring!(the old one do not)

the shape of the locking buttoms is simply better,and i found the tools lock more firmly than the former swisstool.

when u close or open the handles,the pliers's mouth do not open like the former which may cause some injury i think.....

Gryffin · Mar 22, 2005

Ramirez said:
I am not too keen on that blunt nose blade , maybe if it was more of a sheepsfoot type blade, it would appeal to me more.

I plan to spend a quiet evening with that "pointless" blade and my grandfather's old india stone. It'll have a point when I get done with it

Buzzbait · Mar 22, 2005

I don't know if this has been posted before, but it appears that there may be a black version of the Spirit. Check out the link. http://idex.janes.com/public/adlink/ads/1046597.pdf

SteelDriver · Mar 22, 2005

ckl said:
hey guys,dun be fool with just the pic of the spirit scissor....

i used to believe it is gd,but after using it a while,i can say the new design is SUCK!

the spring is still like the old leaf spring that is bended when it is closed to the handle....so it will break someday when the metal is exhaust.but u are doomed to send it back to the factory since u cannot change the spring of it like the old one.... :barf:

The springbar is 1.4" long and many times thicker than the old leafspring. The total deflection of the spring is 0.05", and the stress is distributed along the length of the entire bar. In the old leafspring the stress was concentrated at the bend, which is where it broke. You and your grandchildren could work those scissors all your lives and that springbar will not break from metal fatigue. It's also supported on one side by the scissors, making it less susceptible to accidental bending or damage.

ckl · Mar 23, 2005

SteelDriver said:
The springbar is 1.4" long and many times thicker than the old leafspring. The total deflection of the spring is 0.05", and the stress is distributed along the length of the entire bar. In the old leafspring the stress was concentrated at the bend, which is where it broke. You and your grandchildren could work those scissors all your lives and that springbar will not break from metal fatigue. It's also supported on one side by the scissors, making it less susceptible to accidental bending or damage.

how do u know it will not break from metal fatigue?it is bended when closed,so it is suspend to break....(the wenger's one is totally bend free!)u can't fix it without send back the tool....i know the old leafspring suck,but the new design is suck too!!u know wht i mean?

and how is it cut better than the old one when the cutting area is so small,it is a low efficiency scissor for me.

SteelDriver · Mar 23, 2005

ckl said:
how do u know it will not break from metal fatigue?it is bended when closed,so it is suspend to break....

Read my post again. It will eventually break (like all springs I suppose) but not in your lifetime. Besides, have you seen the leafsprings behind the locking buttons? Those are going to break long from metal fatigue long before the scissors do.

(the wenger's one is totally bend free!)

There is still a spring inside the base pivot of the Wengers, and it's under tension when the scissors are closed. That spring is also subject to metal fatigue, and you have no way of repairing it yourself.

u can't fix it without send back the tool....

You can't fix just about anything without sending it back. Victorinox has a lifetime warranty on the SwissTool, so what's the problem here?

i know the old leafspring suck,but the new design is suck too!!u know wht i mean?

Which one sucks more?

I'll take the new scissors, thank you.

and how is it cut better than the old one when the cutting area is so small,it is a low efficiency scissor for me.

I never disagreed with you on that. I wish the scissors were larger too, but it seems Victorinox decided the new scissors would be an improvement over the old. Scissor size is not a major issue for me because I use it mostly for fine cutting and a blade for everything else.

ckl · Mar 23, 2005

SteelDriver said:

Read my post again. It will eventually break (like all springs I suppose) but not in your lifetime. Besides, have you seen the leafsprings behind the locking buttons? Those are going to break long from metal fatigue long before the scissors do.

Click to expand...

SteelDriver said:
yes,i know.....but those can be replace.....

There is still a spring inside the base pivot of the Wengers, and it's under tension when the scissors are closed. That spring is also subject to metal fatigue, and you have no way of repairing it yourself.

i think u are wrong here,i checked my old wenger and there is NOTHING under pressure when the scissor is closed...do u have a pic?

You can't fix just about anything without sending it back. Victorinox has a lifetime warranty on the SwissTool, so what's the problem here?
QUOTE]

wrong!!!at least u can buy spring replacement to old swisstool scissor....but with the new,nothing u can do..... dun get me wrong but i think both scissors suck!

just a thought:why dun they make their scissor had a small thumb hole?it is small and minus the need of any spring....... :yawn:

Gryffin · Mar 23, 2005

Whoa, dude... have you considered enrolling in an ESL course?

You're right, the Wenger spring is unloaded when the scissors are folded. The Leatherman PST II, Pulse, Wave and Juice scissors work in much the same way.

From the photos, the new Spirit scissors look very similar. Mine is still in the mail, but it looks like the spring tension comes from the backsprings, just like the LMs listed above. In other words, I'm pretty sure that the Spirit scissor spring is under no stress when folded.

Also, someone else pointed out that the spring deflection is a mere 0.050"; compare that to the 0.200 to 0.300 that the old-school scissor leaf springs go through. That spring won't just outlive you, it'll outlive your grandkids.

JoeBW · Mar 24, 2005

Hi CKL,

Ever think about how long the springs in an automobile last? - same type of loading. Design with fatigue in mind is nothing new. I think you are over-reacting without any sound engineering basis.

Best - Joe

SteelDriver · Mar 24, 2005

ckl,

I just checked my Wenger scissors and you are correct, the spring is unloaded when they are closed.

Regarding springs, the longer your leafspring is and the smaller the deflection is, the longer it will last. For example, a coil spring is a clever way to distribute the stress over a long piece of metal yet maintain a compact form factor. I already explained why I think the Spirit's scissors spring will last more than a lifetime of regular use. Are there any reasons why you think it would break from metal fatigue much sooner?

I count 15 springs in my Spirit, yet only two are replaceable by the user. If any of those 13 break (not to mention the other parts of every multitool that are subject to failure), you have to send the tool back to Victorinox. Is that especially difficult for you?

Gryffin,

The Spirit scissors spring is under tension when they're closed. It appears that the spring tension comes entirely from the springbar. You'll understand when you get yours.

PWork · Mar 24, 2005

What's the big deal? If the spring breaks, send it back to Victorinox.

:yawn:

Paul

Buzzbait · Mar 24, 2005

PWork said:
What's the big deal? If the spring breaks, send it back to Victorinox. :yawn:

Paul

Ugghh. I have a wife to give me answers like that!!! We're real men here. We don't take any simple and reasonable solutions!!!! Next thing you know, somebody will be telling me to pull over and ask for directions.

PWork · Mar 24, 2005

Buzzbait said:
Ugghh. I have a wife to give me answers like that!!! We're real men here. We don't take any simple and reasonable solutions!!!! Next thing you know, somebody will be telling me to pull over and ask for directions.

LOL.....What are you lost???

Paul

Buzzbait · Mar 24, 2005

My wife is quite sure that I'm lost.

PWork · Mar 24, 2005

As long as you know where you are, everything will be cool. Some (most/all)wives just don't get it.

Paul

Gryffin · Mar 24, 2005

SteelDriver said:
The Spirit scissors spring is under tension when they're closed. It appears that the spring tension comes entirely from the springbar.

Huh, I'm surprised. Looks likeit would've been easy to implement one like Wenger. Unless Wenger hold a patent on it!

Still, that spring looks pretty much immune to fatigue, the way it's designed. And besides, ANYTHING would be an improvement over the old leaf spring!! :barf:

gatch · Mar 26, 2005

It was an or not an and !

I was in NYC today and stopped by the SwissArmy shop again to get another look at the Spirit Plus. On the box for the plus it shows both the wrench and the ratchet, but in between says or with two different product numbers.

I found out that the the Plus comes in four configurations: with the wrench or ratchet and with the nylon or leather pouch.

The salesperson said that type of pouch makes no difference in the price, but the ratchet option is slighly more expensive than the wrench.

Hope that puts to bed any confusion.

gatch · Mar 28, 2005

In case anyone is interested the product numbers for the Spirit:

3.0227.L SwissTool Spirit (Leather Pouch)
3.0227.N SwissTool Spirit (Nylon Pouch)
3.0238.L SwissTool Spirit Plus (Leather Pouch + Wrench)
3.0238.N SwissTool Spirit Plus (Nylon Pouch + Wrench)
3.0239.L SwissTool Spirit Plus (Leather Pouch + Ratchet)
3.0239.N SwissTool Spirit Plus (Nylon Pouch + Ratchet)

Klingsor · Mar 28, 2005

gatch said:
.
Hope that puts to bed any confusion.

Mayby, maybe not.

You can order the 3.0239 and mayby the 3.0238 with a rotating clip for horizontal carry. Take a look on this page.

So we have much more numbers:

3.0239.L1 SwissTool Spirit Plus (Leather Pouch + Rotating Clip + Ratchet)
3.0239.N1 SwissTool Spirit Plus (Nylon Pouch + Rotating Clip + Ratchet)

and maybe

3.0238.L1 SwissTool Spirit Plus (Leather Pouch + Rotating Clip + Wrench)
3.0238.N1 SwissTool Spirit Plus (Nylon Pouch + Rotating Clip + Wrench )

I dont think that the 3.0227 comes with that option.

Edit: Sorry, I just mentioned by visiting the above link that you can get the 3.0227 also with a rotating clip:

3.0227.L1 SwissTool Spirit (Leather Pouch + Rotating Clip)
3.0227.N1 SwissTool Spirit (Nylon Pouch + Rotating Clip)

I´m very confused now.