Got to thinking

RescueRiley

RescueRiley

Joined
Mar 22, 2006
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we see allot of threads here.. about which knife is best for what and would this knife do this or that... God knows I've posted enough of them myself..
But upon further consideration I believe.. when we look past the tool..we need to look at a few other factors that are of equal or greater importance.
Probably first is:
What do you REALLY need to use a knife for?
Allot of folks want a knife that can chop..but does it need to? in allot of ways it's probably much more energy efficient to break limbs between forked or close set trees.. or burn them into sections over a fire than it is..to try and blaze through something with a knife... this is just an example of course....there are other concerns when pressing a knife into service.
Next would probably be skill level, experience or comfortability of the user...
Allot of folks reccommend a full tang knife for example or this steel or that grind..but in reality if you are comfortable with a given knife and you know the limits of how far you can press this blade.. strength becomes much less of a factor...ie: I'm not going to baton my sak through a hickory stump.. but instead may take the extra time to whittle wedges to split it.. or better yet.. spend less energy and time an make a more concerted effort to find easier wood.

The 3rd thing to consider is that the wilderness is not out to get us... we are no longer going out to tame the land.. but rather to untame ourselves.. there are allot of folks that state.. I wouldn;t go out to the woods with this.. or that knife.. when in reality.. anything that cuts well and carves decent will be adequate.. it's not as cool as having an awesome bushknife.. but most of us are not Ray mears.. most of us go out..throw up a tarp.. use some cotton and a ferrow to get a fire going after unnecesarily batonning a bunch of logs.. maybe whittle an odd hotdog stick or the Sunday afternoon figure 4...None of this requires a $200 skookum.. or a custom wood lore or a folder with a vault lock on it... I do stress most of us... THere are a few hard core individuals out there..I also admit that while the wilderness no longer requires conquering..it can throw some nasty curve balls.. which can be countered with proper planning, training and equipment..not nec. ny what knife you have..
I've had several friends that have hiked the entire AT with nothing more than a Vic Rambler.. granted.. what seperates a bushcrafter from a hiker.. is tha ability to prcess and fabricate things from wood.. However.. How much bushcrafting vs.. bushbumming do we do?? just something to think about
Personally I Like having a chopping tool of some sort.. i think in mild weather a well made machete is probably one of the most versatile and easy to use tools going.. but the reality is while I will more often than not have a machete or axe in my bag.. I know that the mora or Sak on my belt or pocket.. is probably all the knife I need.

there it is my rant is over.. no offense to anyone.. not trying to rock the boat.. just getting my thoughts straight. Thanks for listening.
 
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I didn't see anything offensive in that. I saw a lot of truth. It's good to hear that stuff from time to time.
We get to caught up in flights of fancy and the latest tech sometimes. We forget where we've come from.
I'd bet everything I own that if a mountaineer from the 1800's saw how I live (meager as it is from time to time)--he'd beg to trade me.
Unless you go to Antarctica, the bottom of the oceans, or into space there are no places left to confront and "tame".

I love having the skills I have and they've put food on the table a time or two (not monetarily, but physically). They're proven, they work and I know for a fact that everything I know will save my life and that of my family if I ever need to use it. But when I go into the woods, I'm going out of a need to be in that place--not because I have to blaze the trail in order to make my way to another place. I go out of reverence, not out of neccessity (well, it's a neccessity of the spirit, but not of longevity).

I often catch myself saying: "Boy I'd love to have been with Daniel Boone or David Crockett on one of their trips."

Then I get a headache and pop an Advil and remind myself that I'd more than likely have died by the time I was 40 of some--now--curable disease.

I guess in a roundabout way, I'm agreeing with you.

But mine turned into a kind of monologue too!
 
Well said Kemsat...I'm in full agreement...Skills in my opinion are the defining factor of a true woodsman..and heaven knows that there are many skills which I need to work on LOL...
 
I agree entirely, and that's why I've been whittling down my tool set lately...

First I stopped carrying a folder and a fixed blade together when they had the same length blades...they do the same job, so I only need one of them.

Then I stopped bringing an axe along as much...Instead choosing to use my folding saw to cut wood, and depending on the environment to provide me with dry kindling instead of splitting it from larger rounds. I break wood by stomping on it or by leveraging it between trees, and if I can't break it, I just put the whole thing on the fire.

I discovered that the largest use for my large chopping or axe was for splitting wood, and I don't really want to carry such a heavy item just to split wood when most of the time splitting wood isn't even really necessary.

All that said, when I am going somewhere without a long hike in, and I know the weather has been wet (or I know that the area is heavily camped and thus stripped of readily available wood), I bring a heavy duty chopper that will let me procure wood that the casual camper can not.

I really don't use my knives very much when camping. On the last outing, I used my knife to make anchoring stakes for my tarp; carving a frog spear; crafting some primitive weapons; cutting some cord; processing frog legs for a snack and some other small miscellaneous cutting jobs. Because my primary knife was disabled very early on in the trip, I ended up using what I consider a very light duty knife for all of these tasks: an Opinel #15. It is one of the narrow, thin bladed models, which means that I essentially used a fillet knife for all of my woodcrafting tasks.

But, I do enjoy hacking at some wood every once in a while...;)
 
agreed Siguy.. also Kem-sat brings up a good point... I go to the woods because I'm driven internally to do so.. THere is something rejuvinating..something theraputic about it.. The more Organic of a wilderness experience.. for me the better.. but I take what I can get..
 
Great thread.

For full day hikes and weekend outings, I carry my EDC, a mid-sized fixed blade, and my Wave. My little EDC, which makes no pretensions at being a rugged survival knife, can handle most cutting and food prep tasks. So I definitely agree that we often go about over-knifed. But hey, we're knife enthusiasts. If I could carve wood just by staring at it, I would still bring my knife - probably several. When I think back, there have been plenty of trips where I did not (in retrospect) really need anything more than a little scandi (despite the fact that I brought a larger belt knife and a multi-tool along), so I definitely take the point about untaming ourselves as opposed to taming the wilderness.

I do regularly use a large knife for chopping, though. It's the right tool for the job. This past weekend, I spent a whole day clearing dense bush (still working on that trail system!), and my BK-9 was my go-to tool for this work. The bush was thick, with a mixture of tangled underbrush and young trees (bent from the winter and growing sideways, making an interlocking maze), and older, harder wood (and plenty of dead trees). I don't like using a chain saw for bush whacking - seems like an accident waiting to happen. So I wrapped my Becker handle in a bike inner tube, added some grip tape, donned leather gloves, and went at it for hours. No fuzz-sticks were involved. :D

So, there's bushcraft / bush-bumming, and then there's bush-work. I wouldn't dream of bringing my Becker along for the former, but I certainly need it for the latter. This is my roundabout way of agreeing with the idea behind Riley's "What do you REALLY need to use a knife for?" question.

All the best,

- Mike
 
Hmmm good thread.

I have many knives that I rotate through my hands, and I find myself INVENTING things to carve on occasion. I am a newbie, don't know much about traps, snares, knots etc. What I do know is the basics. The basics will set you free if you think :thumbup:. Thinking with a cutting tool nearby helps. As far as having a specific one....it's a matter of personal choice.

Recently I hosted a sleepover for my son and his buddies. Bunch of city boys aged 17. It was apparent after just a few minutes that they didn't know what the heck they were doing AT ALL. I set up the tents, cleared an area for a campfire, and asked them to gather wood. One of them lugged a huge log over and plunked it down next to me. I asked what it was for and he said "for burning in the fire". I asked if he thought the fire was going to be going all night and he said no. I told him to go get some sticks no larger than his thumb in diameter.

As I built the fire they were showing up with green sticks, a handful of leaves, wet wood, then standing back to watch me make fire. The only time I used my knife was to scrape some bark into tinder. I didn't really even need to since I used some fire paste and a lighter. Most of the wood I broke with my hands or used my knee.

That said, I still feel naked without a knife whether in the woods or not.
 
Goes to show the most important tool just might be knowledge, not a blade.
 
As Les said, knowledge is FAR more important than the actual blade. Part of that knowledge is blade familiarity and prior usage. There are many people in less developed areas of the world that use a single knife for everything. To look at their knife closely or to hold it, one might think it not very sharp or comfortable, or not very well suited to do many things. Yet, these people not only do everything with their one knife that they need a knife for, but many of the things they do are done amazingly well, and IMHO as well or better than what one would see if a specialized knife for a particular job was put into the hands of a novice. Yes, I'll take knowledge any day.
 
We are so spoiled!

Sometimes I wonder what Daniel Boone would have thought of something as cheap and simple as the things we take for granted Mora, SAK, Leatherman, Ferro Rod, ect. Let alone a sil nylon tarp or a modern firearm. (These are the things I keep telling myself to stave off that next knife purchase).

If you were lost with no knife, finding just about anything with an edge would be an enormous asset (ice skate in castaway).

Brandon
 
Blaspheme! Blaspheme, I say!

Well, no, I don't really say that. Actually, I agree whole heartedly. In the past, for years, I went into the bush carrying only a Buck 112 and a little slippie pocket knife or an old Ka-Bar, and thought nothing of it. I'd never heard the term batoning; it was something I just did when I needed to, and yes, I did it with a Buck 112 or a wooden wedge. It was only small pieces of wood, and I didn't really need a bigger knife for that. I was out there to enjoy the solitude and the silence, and knives were just something I carried to make life easier.

Nowadays, I carry a Becker BK-2 and a Silky saw, with a short (cheap) bolo machete on occasion. That's pretty much it: that combo does everything I need done. If I carry anything else, it's just for play-time -- trying to refine my skills. Oh, and the little old slippie is still in my pocket for finer tasks. I think Mr. Riley hit it on the head: Great read, Mr. Riley.
 
Riley,

I was thinking about this the other day - what do you really WANT out of a knife? Comfortable at all times? Cuts without trying? Chops and does small work? Is light but tough?

I am thinking I want too much out of a blade and what I need to have is the knowledge of how I (personally) wish to use a knife and then tailor the knife to that. This takes knowing the self more than the blade.

TF
 
KEmSAT-Survival said:
I didn't see anything offensive in that. I saw a lot of truth. It's good to hear that stuff from time to time.
We get to caught up in flights of fancy and the latest tech sometimes. We forget where we've come from.
I'd bet everything I own that if a mountaineer from the 1800's saw how I live (meager as it is from time to time)--he'd beg to trade me.
Unless you go to Antarctica, the bottom of the oceans, or into space there are no places left to confront and "tame".

I have to disagree, I could probably drop you off 30 miles from a town in Alaska and you wouldn't have a clue that the land was "tame".

I don't want to offend but there's a lot of untamed land out there.
Click to expand...
 
Skimo said:
KEmSAT-Survival said:
I didn't see anything offensive in that. I saw a lot of truth. It's good to hear that stuff from time to time.
We get to caught up in flights of fancy and the latest tech sometimes. We forget where we've come from.
I'd bet everything I own that if a mountaineer from the 1800's saw how I live (meager as it is from time to time)--he'd beg to trade me.
Unless you go to Antarctica, the bottom of the oceans, or into space there are no places left to confront and "tame".

I have to disagree, I could probably drop you off 30 miles from a town in Alaska and you wouldn't have a clue that the land was "tame".

I don't want to offend but there's a lot of untamed land out there.
Click to expand...

He's right, you know. Even here where I live in North Carolina, there are some parts of the Blue Ridge Mountains that you can't tell have ever seen a human foot print.
Click to expand...
 
couldnt agree more, i often think about those same things. i have never had to baton wood or chop a tree with my knife. i have practiced batoning and only found that it would be useful if everything is wet and you had to get to dry stuff. i dont own any blade over 5'' because i have no use for something bigger. IMO a knife is for cutting tasks, although it can perform other tasks like chopping and batoning there are tools made for those tasks. you could skin an animal with a sharp hatchet if you had too..or frame a house with a crowbar..

when im in the woods i carry an sak and one of my fixed blades, with those i can do whatever i need to
 
I agree with you. We don't necessarily have the need for the items, rather than a high want for them. If people of the past saw what we had today, they would think we were spoiled, when we think we are getting away from modernization itself.

Although, when I want a blade for chopping, I just like to chop, as it lets me vent, so to speak.
 
Very good thread! There is a alot of wisdom or experience mentioned in this thread. Before I even came here on this forum, I never thought about even trying a majority of stuff mentioned on here. Do I need to carry the latest thing to make it by? No, but it does make it fun to mess around with new ideas and share them with others though. If trying do things differently makes me relax and forget about the daily grind. Then it's good enough for me!
 
I think you are right in what you are saying- after all, nearly any knife anyone reading this is likely to have is going to be worlds better than what our ancestors who really needed and used their knives had. For that matter, the whole time I was growing up I hiked and camped with only my pocket knife on me and hardly ever used that.

But... we are on a knife forum! I take my knives out just to enjoy and experience the different designs, different makers, etc. Some are whackers, some fine tools, some I would bet my life on and some I'd rather not, so there is the "pleasure principle" to consider.

Also, as has been said, there is still plenty of true wilderness around and you don't have to be far from civilization to find yourself in a bad spot. A good knife is like a talisman against misfortune, isn't it? It can be counted on to improve your odds in nearly any situation- and if not, at least gives you the comfort of thinking it will!
 
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