Got to thinking

Skimo.. I don;t think anyone is saying that there isn't allot of wilderness out there. However I will also say there is allot less than there used to be in some areas.. There are exceptions.. in extreme areas.. specialized tools are required. I think a full sized axe in the North country, and a machete in central America to name but a few examples.. But thoses unique cirumstanecs aside.. I think you don't need a 700 dollar bailey knife to make a tent peg, or clean a trout and under the condiditons most of us face.. 1/4 inch thick 10 inch long piece of 1095 may not really do anything out of necessity that couldn;t be done with a buck 110 and a little ingenuity

I', not saying anything against big knives I'm just saying.. there seems to be this notion that the Forest is this predator filled inhospitable place where you need a Bk9 and a 44.mag on you to make it out.. and largely (not totally) speaking it is simply not the case...A knowledge of your area.. good prep work.. and a valid rehearsed and reproducible set of skills are the most important tools in the box... imo... However although I've done a fair share of unarmed camping in brown bear country if I whereto do it again I'd tread easier if I where strapped
 
I think what Riley is saying is that the woods isn't anything. Certainly it is not 'out to get you'. It simply is - it should be respected but not tamed or controlled. There is no boogie man to scare away.

I think I want too much from a knife - and I need to save calories on chopping, smashing, and other things that can be done simply by having more knowledge.

TF
 
I kinda agree with ya Riley and most of the times we could most likely get by without any knife at all !
However this forum is about survival and survival situations mean that sh*t has happened, as we all know if sh*t can happen then odds are that one day it will !!!
So to get to my point we have to try and execute damage limitation( I'm keeping this to knives as otherwise it would go on forever !) and one way to execute this is to take out a knife that we can pretty much trust would not fail even under extreme circumstances...remember if sh*t can happen it most likely will....so that cheap Mora which usually stands up just fine when using it during normal conditions, may suddenly fail leaving you with a tiny bit of tang and a blade or worse !!!!!
Most of us have better knives or can afford better knives so why take a risk ?

You could say that for most the time we only need a car as a means to get us from A to B at a safe speed but there are many here that like their big trucks/fancy cars etc ! So just because something seems like it will get us by we may still seek out a better quality option !

This is of course just my opinion and I don't know squat compared to many on here....I also think this would be a boring forum if we only carried Mora's eh !!!!!!
 
Knives are tools, and one knife can't do everything perfectly. Pick the right tool for the job , if you have a choice. Use what you have, if you don't have a choice. And if you can only pick/carry one tool, choose what can perform most tasks that you are likely to encounter. That being said, I've used an axe to cut string, and I've batonned folders through small logs. They weren't the right tools for the task at hand, but they were all I had on me at the time. That is the reason I carry three or four cutting tools with me in the woods,when I can.

Pete
 
There is a reason we are on the Blade Forums. Most of us are knife lovers. Sure, we have other interests, like nature and wilderness survival and such. I have more knives in my living room that most people own. If I am honest about it, I am not physically fit enough to survive the stuff I used to do, reguardless of which super blade I have. But based on my many years of experience, I'd say a machete and a good folder or a Mora will do all I might need a knife to do in the wild swamps of Georgia. But I'd feel better carrying my SY Dog Father or Busse NMSFNO. :D
 
A nice thread. RescueRiley asks "What do you REALLY need to use a knife for?". My answer would be: for cutting things. My knife does not replace an axe or a saw, it is meant for cutting things and I think that should be the only application of a knife. Of course you can use a knife for different applications, but if it doesn't succeed, don't blame the knife.

For many years I have been camping and hiking through Europe with only a Victorinox Soldier. But I never felt that I missed other tools. The only things that I sometimes missed were certain pieces of knowledge. Reading a lot about the area I am going to visit has always been part of my preparation. Learning about a country or region its culture, nature, weather, organisation of emergency services, studying maps, etc., but you simply can't read everything. Knowledge is my main tool to solve problems, knives and such are supporting tools.

Nowadays I am more interested in knives and carry other knives with me. This influences the way I go camping and hiking, because tools influence the way you think about performing tasks and can lead to inventing new tasks. If you carry a saw, you would probably use it to get wood for a camp fire, but if you don't carry a saw, you would probably still be able to get that wood. You would just invent a different way of getting it. Perhaps you would not be thinking about making a big piece of wood smaller, but collecting small pieces of wood.
 
Riley makes a good point. :thumbup:

A man's skills are much more important then a man's tools. :cool:






That said, …I still like my big ass tools. :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:




Big Mike

”Scaring the tree huggers.”

Forest & Stream
 
I tend to fall into the camp with these guys....

Mentor said:
But hey, we're knife enthusiasts. If I could carve wood just by staring at it, I would still bring my knife - probably several.
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TheGame said:
I agree with you. We don't necessarily have the need for the items, rather than a high want for them........Although, when I want a blade for chopping, I just like to chop, as it lets me vent, so to speak.
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MVF said:
But... we are on a knife forum! I take my knives out just to enjoy and experience the different designs, different makers, etc. Some are whackers, some fine tools, some I would bet my life on and some I'd rather not, so there is the "pleasure principle" to consider.
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I enjoy knives for many reasons, aesthetically and kinesthetically. I love the outdoors, but sometimes my sole rational for getting my lazy butt out there is to play with a new blade and take some pictures of 'knives in trees'. So, my knives are symbols as much as they are tools.

I think the context that the OP is bringing is false rationalization. Do you need the overbuilt knife in multiples of three to survive? If you use that rationalization to satisfy your impulse purchases than you are probably fooling yourself. Now if you think that having the new knife is going to make you enjoy your next outdoors experience more, or perhaps looking at this new knife inspires you to dream about your next adventure, then perhaps this is an okay rationalization - and with that thought fresh in my head, I fire off a private message to Christof......:D :D

There is an interesting continuum in terms of approaches to camping and wilderness activity. This ranges from high tech gadget for everything to primitive methods that involve carrying the cloths on your back. For me, part of the joy is sliding through that continuum with constant reverses in direction.
 
I do agree with you RR 100%. My big knife is a Bushman and i got a few Moras. Never had i a time where i needed something bigger. But i must admit seeing and holding some knifes that other guys have makes me droll. Everytime i used a diffrent knife was because i went out of my way to find a use for it and not because i HAD a use for anything more then a Mora.

Sasha
 
I think it's mostly a matter of mentality or personal philosophy. IE, is someone a knife knut first or a bushcraft guy first? Or an equal proportion of the two? For myself, I figure all I NEED is the SAK in my pocket or the Blackjack Trail Guide but that doesn't stop me from wanting to take a hatchet, machete and/or my Busse SFNO (which I consider more a demolition than bushcraft tool :)) if I am able. Because doing so just greatly expands the fun I can have on a day or two trip into the woods.

For a long hike on the AT, or similar, I definitely doubt I'd take more than a sak and Mora-type blade myself, gotta count those ounces on a stroll like that.
 
kgd said:
There is an interesting continuum in terms of approaches to camping and wilderness activity. This ranges from high tech gadget for everything to primitive methods that involve carrying the cloths on your back. For me, part of the joy is sliding through that continuum with constant reverses in direction.
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Couldn't have put it better. :thumbup:

I have days or outings where I go with synthetic fabrics, synthetic handle materials, and modern designs. And then I have days where it's all about leather, natural fabrics, and primitive methods.

All the best,

- Mike
 
I combine a certain amount of old and new.. While my primary interest and passion is spending time out doors.. one of my main interests is the pursuit of aboriginal living skills. That being said.. Time available for spending out is not nec. condusive to the time consuming techniques of our ancestors..
Therefor I tend to hybridize my gear.. to comprise a combination of comfort, and functionality while still enabling me to utilize my very small and unimpressive skill set. ALso Price is a major factor in my kit...I like tough functional items that don;t break the bank.. However I have ultralight buddies that would think nothing of plugginf a 1000 bucks down on a sleeping bag. To each his own I guess.
My main point I guess when starting this thread..has to do with the fact that I visit several forums.. where people lose sleep, or battle fiercely over knife choices.. when a fair percentage of them have never camped outside a KOA campground.. There is noting wrong with that.. but a fusion battle mistress wont do anything for you that any other knife can under those circumstances.
Granted These knife boards attract knife people so get what you like and use it by all means.. I have a drawer full of knives I won't use but won;t get rid of either just because I like them. ( go figure)
Upon introspection however I realize that in all other aspects of my life I am a pretty spartan guy. Most of my clothes are walmart or mil surplus... I hunt with a 90 dollar H&r single shot. I drive an 8 year old car with 110,000 miles on it... the list goes on...I guess what I am asking is at what point is the functionality of a tool out shined by the aesthetic? what knife will best define or an express an aspect of my personality? seems to be the real question we want answered by our "perfect knife" quests, or at least that's how it seems.
 
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I wasn't downing on you, there is a lot less wild land.

I'm gonna say that pretty much everywhere I've been there's been critters that would need shooting, bears, wolves, wild pigs, snakes, wild cats etc.

For camping I'd say I go over board a bit, but it's worth my peace of mind.
 
I'm going to buck the trend.

I want the biggest forking piece of steel I can carry.

Why use a $10 4 ounce Mora to do the same job I can do with a $200 3.5-pound kukri?

Seriously, I don't mean to offend, but I don't understand the fascination with seeing how far you can go with the flimsiest piece of gear you can find (i.e. going out with just a Mora).

Looking historically, people who really did live off the land always picked a big tool and a small knife. Furthermore, their primary was the BIG tool, not the small. They would do a lot of the "bushcraft" best suited to a small blade -- according to conventional wisdom -- with their axe, kukri or machete.

If we are going out to learn to live in the woods, then why not learn how to do it like the people we looked up to? I forgot who it was, but one poster fairly recently showed they could do even the finer bushcraft tasks with their hatchet..

There was a video posted in the HI subforum of a guy doing his daily chef's work with an 18.5" kukri.

Ask Jeff Randall what ONE blade he'd want to survive -- to do everything -- and he'll tell you a machete. And looking at the pictures from their training sessions, it's not a 12" machete.

I asked a guy at work -- an old school snake eater type -- what size knife he takes to the woods. He wants a big one. I asked why? His answer: "Because any decent camping trip can turn into a survival situation in no time flat." So I asked, can't he build shelters and build a fire and such with just a SAK and/or folding saw? He asnswer? "Yeah, but I can do it faster with a big knife."

So screw the teeny weenies! Bring on the heavy equipment!!
:D
 
One of the best (or worst) things you can do for yourself is to go on an extended outing and not use a knife. (I said "not use"... that doesn't mean "not bring")

Many of us are riding our bikes with the training wheels still on. When you take off the training wheels, you lose a tool but gain a freedom you couldn't even comprehend prior to the big step.

I'm not saying a blade is unnecessary... far from it... but when you find out how much you can accomplish without one, your confidence will soar and you'll appreciate your knife for its true advantages rather than perceived.

Aesthetic value has everything to do with funtionality IMO... that said, everybody's idea of what appeals to them is different. I like a rustic, oldtime, looking tool when I'm in the woods. Are they better than shiny ones? YES!.... er I mean, no. It simply completes what my perception of a woodsman is. When form and function are working together, I think it is easier to manage that whole mind, body, spirit thing.

If you find, after doing some serious skill inventory, that you just NEED to carry that Musashi Muromachi Daisho into the woods... then so be it.


Rick
 
If you want to look at history, you will find the men/women of the outdoor lifestyle and rural existance were never very far from an axe.
Grandpa kept his inside the house at night.
It was a treat to watch him use it.

A knife is only a knife.
An axe will do everything else, and do it well.
Yep, even when packing on foot, the axe was the king of survival tools.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
"Yeah, but I can do it faster with a big knife."

So screw the teeny weenies! Bring on the heavy equipment!!
:D
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That is a VERY valid point, my friend... walking trails and tent camping is an ENTIRELY different situation then having just flipped your canoe, 2 days into a trip, in late October, 2hrs before Sundown.... You don't want to be scoring your shelter poles or searching around for more suitable wood while you slowly slip deeper into the grips of hypothermia. Thats when minutes count!


Rick
 
Magnussen said:
That is a VERY valid point, my friend... walking trails and tent camping is an ENTIRELY different situation then having just flipped your canoe, 2 days into a trip, in late October, 2hrs before Sundown.... You don't want to be scoring your shelter poles or searching around for more suitable wood while you slowly slip deeper into the grips of hypothermia. Thats when minutes count!


Rick
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That very reason is why it's good to keep a space blanket and fire making supplies in a water-tight box, on your person. KSF sells otter boxes and a Holt belt-carrier that work well.
 
I recently had the opportunity to hike with a friend and a guy from church. We did 16-17 miles of the A.T. that started just North of Harrisburg, PA where the trail crosses the Susquahanna River and stretched to the second road that we crossed. I have very little hiking experience or training so it was very eye opening to me. When I got home, I weighed my pack without food or water and it was 55 lbs. I have not brought myself to calculate how many lbs of cutting tools I had with me, but I'm sure I could have saved a substantial amout of weight. Next time I find myself in that sort of situation, I will be more selective of gear which includes cutting tools makes it into my pockets, onto my belt, and into my pack.

I will be careful in the future to pack appropriately for the outdoors adventure that I plan to embar upon.

Testing cutting tools is definately not for A.T. hiking adventures, IMO.
 
Riley isn't saying big knives are bad.
I'm not saying there isn't any "wilderness" left. There is--and plenty of it. I'm not using the words "survival situation" (mostly because I hate them), but that can occur in your front yard--ask the old guy who broke his hip and died on his front lawn, from hypothermia, not 20 feet from his front door . Well, his family, anyway.
What I was trying to say, but apparently failed at conveying, is that there is no new frontier, other than Antarctica, Space and the Ocean (which we know less about than outer space).
People have been through Alaska, they've settled Alaska--even some of the more remote areas. Does that mean there are no areas of wilderness in Alaska? Hell, there are areas of Wilderness in New York.

I believe what Riley is trying to say is that, as humans and as a result of the nature that comes with that, we are hellbent on understanding and controlling things. Control is the one illusion we won't let go of. Ever.

We are convinced that owning certain sets of skills, kits or gear will give us control of nature, and as a result of this line of thinking some people might fall into the trap that "nature is an opposing force that will hurt you if it can." This thought is a fallacy. Nature is not out to get you, nature is not evil, nature is not dangerous, nature just IS. Thinking you can control what is and "beat it" is an error in belief. No matter how good your knife is. No matter how much gear you carry. Nature will still be nature. It doesn't have feelings, it doesn't have thought. It is a force. An occurence. An immovable, unstoppable object.

Now, is that to say you can't learn to bend a rule or live within a boundary? No. That is the very essence of Bushcraft, Wilderness Survival, Primitive Living, whatever you want to call it. Taking what nature has availible and living within those bounds to the best of your ability. If you'd have shown a Cherokee a Busse Battle Mistress, he probably would have shown you his Flint knife and said: "Yeah, so?" (then tried to talk you out of this fancy trinket...or would have just killed you and took it...)
That last part was kind of a joke. What it meant to illustrate was that every society is adept with the tools they possess.

I know some guys who, no matter what part of the world they go to, a folder is all they take; and will flatly tell you, "I don't carry a fixed blade of any kind."

I think we are missing the point of the OP, that it was not a thread began with the intention of: "If you carry a big knife, you're over doing it." I don't think it was intended as a "This is the kind of gear I carry" thread. But as a kind of attempt to see if Riley's thoughts were ones that only he had, or if anyone else shared them.

God, I hope this doesn't come off as smarmy or know-it-all'ish...Appologies for offenses and such.
 
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