Grapefruit sized shoulders, how to get them?

Spark

HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate
Staff member
Administrator
Super Mod
Moderator
Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
15,230
I recently decided not to be such a fat bastard anymore and started working out again for weight loss and general fitness. Save the applause, I was unhealthy before I started doing this and have only lost 35 lbs so far, goal is to get back down to 180-190 (40 or so more lbs).

One of the things I've always wanted was big deltoids. I'm familiar with how fast the triceps & biceps grow, and pectorals, but I've never really concentrated on the delts before.

Currently I'm doing a lot of palm out pull ups, and with free weights I'm doing lateral raises & vertical presses. Any of you weight lifters have any tips for growing the big shoulders? How fast can I expect growth if I'm working out 3-4 days a week, when I concentrate on those areas (in addition to everything else)? Any better exercises I should do?
 
Shoulder shrugs.

Side lifts (lateral raise) (arms straight, weight starting at sides, raise to shoulder height, keep arms in line with you body).

Front lifts (similar, only lift the weight to the front from the sides).

Upright rows.

Think that would be a great start. Stick with light weights and watch your form! The side and front lifts will hurt you if you get too heavy too soon. Form is more important than the weight.

Hope that helps.
 
Shoulder shrugs are good.
I do dumbell overhead presses, dumbell raises, shrugs, and good old push-ups for shoulder work. I'd highly recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...2528650/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-0189575-8524033

Title sounds like hype, but it's all about perfect form and sensible, safe training. A very good book, with good photos so you do your exercises properly. I've been working out since late April, and I've made great progress.
Good luck.
 
Things NOT to do (I hurt my shoulder doing them): "Arnold Presses", pec deck, and upright rows that come up too high.

I think the pec deck was the worst, because I hurt the area connecting the shoulder to the chest, I think by over stretching and using too much weight on the stack.
 
Spark said:
How fast can I expect growth if I'm working out 3-4 days a week, when I concentrate on those areas (in addition to everything else)? Any better exercises I should do?

This is a major lifestyle change, and not something to look at in a "time frame." Don't over do and burn out before you get off the ground so to speak. Dont be disapointed if the changes you want may take "a while" depending on lots of things. Such as age, genetics, diet etc.

Vary you exercises to keep things from getting boring. I wish you the best.
 
Let me add, do NOT use heavy weights when doing military presses. At least not until you work your way up to them. You will be surprised what kind of results you can get with lower weights and higher repetitions. Once you screw your shoulders up by using too heavy of weights, your shoulders are going to always be screwed up. So, be careful with overhead presses.

Shoulder shrugs work great. Also, grabbing a barbell with your hands close together in the middle of the barbell, and raising the bar up to your chin works your shoulders well too(I forget the name of this particular exercise).

Remember to give your muscles a day off between workouts. Don't work the same muscles two days in a row.
 
The muscle that gives the shoulders the appearance of size is (like calves) a hard muscle grow because it is mostly slow twitch fibre. The best way to get the posterior deltoid to grow is to train it after fatiguing the other deltoids first. A few sets of lateral raises or lateral cable flyes (whatever you like) followed by 1-2 maximum sets of military (behind the neck) press usually brings them out. This combination is a little stressfiull on the neck however so you are best to train for a month or two before attempting it.

Remember just good, consistent training in the first few months before you try to specialise and target particular muscle groups.
 
Pushups and pullups still work great, trooper.
Avoid the pills and powders, too, most guys I know loose it when they go off 'em. Imagine letting the air out of a balloon...
 
Spark said:
Grapefruit sized shoulders, how to get them?
Go to the supermarket, walk to the produce isle, buy some grapefruit, and stuff them in your shirt.

Sure beats that tireing working-out crap. :D
 
I'm not a weighlifter, but I got amazing shoulder muscle development playing basketball at work and in rec leagues.
 
Just some thoughts:

Generally the time needed to see results varies with the person and their previous physical conditioning. But on average, assuming your BF% is dropping, figure 3-4 months to see real gains.

Also, watch how fast you're dropping the weight. The accepted rule for this in the strength training world is: 5Lbs the first week of dieting(much of this will be water weight) and 1-1 1/2lbs for each additional week of dieting. Anymore than that, and you're losing too much muscle along with the fat.

Go by mirror, and not the scale when judging weight loss.

--------

3-4 times a week is a fine sch. for weightlifting. Anymore than that, and most folks overtrain. Keep the sessions in the 45-60 minute range. Studies have shown that your testosterone levels start to taper down after about 60 minutes of intense exercise. The old train 3 hrs a day, 7 days a week clap trap one reads about in the magazine is a bunch of hogwash. Most of those guys are either lazy, bsing you, or loaded up on AAS.

--------

Rep selection is also important when figuring out a training programs. Here are are the general guidelines for this:

1-5 reps generally useful for strength gains(through targeting of the IIb FT muscle fibers).

6-10- is used for gains in both strength gains and size gains. It targets the IIb and IIa FT fibers.

10-15 This rep bracket is used when one is looking for musclar endurence, It's also used by some strength coaches to promote weightloss.

15+ You'd be heading into aerobics most of the time.


Time-Under-Tension/Tempo- You'll sometimes see these terms used in the magazines and such. This refers to time it takes to complete a set and various parts of a rep.

Without getting into a long discussion the rules for this is:

Strength gains- the sets should be at a fast pace. Figure on about 30 seconds to complete a set.

Size/Strength- figure the set should take about 40-60 sec. per set.

Sometimes you'll see a number sequence like 3-1-2, that's the tempo. It refers to the number seconds a rep should take you.

The first number is it eccentric(lowering the weight, sometimes called the negative) portion of the rep.

The middle number(s) is for if there's a pause/static hold at some point in the rep.

The last number is the concentric(lifting) part of the rep.

Generally, the negative/eccentric portion of a rep is considered the most important part of the rep for building size/strength.

----------------

Exercise selection:

You should always include the exercises that target the largest/most muscle groups and do them as the first exercise in any training program. So for shoulders, a military press would come before a raise type exercise, because the press works more muscles, and you can use more weight. One of the universal truths in the strength game is the more weight one can handle in good form, the faster all gains will come.

You'll hear various folks pan movements like squats, presses, etc... as bad exercises. The truth is that they're not(there are some nasty exercises, but they're not the ones most people think. Tricep kickbacks, and leg extensions come to mind. yet they find there way into many programs).

Usually when people injure themselves on these so called bad exercises it's because:

a) They had horrible form. Get your form down, and you'll have a much nicer time.

b) Too much weight, too soon. Gains on many exercises come at a slow pace, especially for the smaller muscle groups. Lift within your means.

c) Not maintaining a muscular balance. Many folks tend to only really work their favorite muscles with much intensity and the others take a backseat. This is bad news, your body will only let things get out of wack so much before something goes snap. All muscle groups are important, and should receive some work at some point.

-------

Make sure to change your program about every month or so. Muscles adapt to workloads and such very quickly, and gains either slow down or stop. These changes to a program don't need to be drastic, just small things like order of the bodyparts worked, tempo, etc.....

------

Aerobics and Weightlifting can mix, but one has to be careful, personally I don't care for structured aerobics. The best way to combine the two is to either do the aerobics on days that you're not lifting, or add the aerobics to the end of your strength training workout.

-------

Free weights are best for most exercises as they force you to balance the workload, but certain machines are nice for certain exercises. They certainly are a welcomed change of pace sometimes.

Stay away from the Smith machine. It locks you into a specific plane of motion and over time, this will injure your joints.

--------

Spark, personally here's how I'd handle the shoulder thing:

Monday:

Arms/shoulders:

Triceps:

4x8 Close grip benches( I put my hands about 14-16" apart on these. I'm 6' tall for reference) .
3x8 Tricep extensions.
2x8 Press downs or french press.

Biceps:

3x8 Barbell curls.
4x8 Hammer curls.
2x8 Reverse curls.

Shoulders:

3x10 Military press.
3x10 Rear delt raises.

Wed: Legs/calves(alertnating between hamstring/quad specific every week)

5x6-8 Squats/Deadlift
3x6-8 Hack squats/Leg press.
2x10-12 Weighted step-ups or lunges.
6x8-10 Dumbbell calf raises.
2x8-10 Hyper extensions.

Fri: Chest/Back

Chest:

4x6-8 Dumbbell Incline Bench press.
4x6-8 Flat Barbell Bench Press or Dips.
2x10 Dumbbell flyes(optional).

Back:

3x8-10 Pull/Chin-ups(Once you can do 10 clean, start to add extra weight).
3x6-8 Dumbbell or Barbell Rows.
3x8-10 High Pulls or Upright Rows.


Set it up this way so that the Shoulders get plenty of work through the various pressing movements, and on there own day. It's also set up so that the various muscle groups are given ample time to rest. Also many different groups are touched upon. It also provides good variety and almost all the exercises can be done with a simple weight set.

Feel free to play with the sets and reps a bit also.

Also check out the older powerlifting programs by guys like Bill Starr, Rader, etc... they tend to work well for most people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DB1
I would stick with the basic 3 day a week-full body workout for 3 or 4 months. You should make excellent gains in strength and muscle gain at first. First and foremost, you should work the rotator cuff muscles at least once a week.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/980215a.html
With the single arm exercises on that site, start with your off hand and do till failure. When you switch to your dominant hand, do not do more than you did with your off hand. Stop at the number of repetitions you did with your off arm. This will keep you balanced and it's important for a lot of exercises that you don't push more with one arm. Bench presses and shoulder presses need to be evenly pressed up. Those two are also the cause of many shoulder injuries. I would also substitute incline bench presses for flat ones. Once you're ready to start specializing, there's lots of things to blast the shoulders. Negative reps, partials and different routines. If you do now or decide to split body parts to different days, schedule your shoulder work and bench press as far away as possible. If you do your chest work on Monday, do your shoulder work on the last workout of that week.
 
Planterz said:
Go to the supermarket, walk to the produce isle, buy some grapefruit, and stuff them in your shirt.

Sure beats that tireing working-out crap. :D

Double sided tape also helps. :)
 
:D :D





just lift stuff and hold it over your head. You'd be surprised how quickly you can work out your shoulders restocking high shelves with heavy boxes....something I'm sure you have readily accessible....:D ;)

Just have a peek at Rulon Gardner's workout routine.....


:footinmou


-----------------------


I've done shoulder work.....takes forever to get good results. On top of that, you can't really go heavy on it and heavy weights are the only way to build the muscle. Ie. the 20lb weights get too easy, but the 25's are killer. So you have to use 1lb plates, etc. Pain in the rear....


Where's lifter?
 
Good info here guys -- I've been seriously debating getting into some weight training again too.
 
Bob,

I like your workout program. I really need to change my routine up and I think that I might give yours a try (with maybe a little variation on the leg routine). However, I'm curious about Friday's routine. It was always my understanding that you shouldn't work two major muscle groups on the same day because it impedes the healing process. Honestly, I stopped reading the magazines many years ago so maybe I'm working off of outdated information. Would you clear this matter up for me? :( :)
 
smegs said:
I would stick with the basic 3 day a week-full body workout for 3 or 4 months. You should make excellent gains in strength and muscle gain at first. First and foremost, you should work the rotator cuff muscles at least once a week.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/980215a.html

I'm a big fan of rotator cuff exercises (especially #2 there), but is this really a good idea?
If you do all four exercises three to five times a week, your rotator cuff muscles will become stronger and you'll regain normal strength in your shoulder. Each time you finish doing all four exercises, put an ice pack on your shoulder for 20 minutes. It's best to use a plastic bag with ice cubes in it, or a bag of frozen peas, not gel packs.

Should you really ice the shoulders immediately after exercising? Or is that part just meant for people who are rehabilitating after an injury?
 
Overtraining:).

It would be of some concern if the program was bunched together more(i.e. greater volume), but it planned out so that the larger muscle groups are given so much time to recover, that it shouldn't be an issue. Also, by training a pulling with a pushing group, each group is allowed to worked at it's maximal potential. By this I mean, if two pulling groups are worked in the same the work out, one will alway get the short end of the stick, so to speak.

For example; if you work shoulders/chest, your chest workout will suffer because your won't be able to handle anywhere near the same poundages because your shoulders, tris, and all the little accessory muscles the help out during a lift are shot from the shoulder pressing and other shoulder stuff. By working opposite muscle groups this wouldn't happen.
 
Interesting stuff so far. Thanks for the advice!
 
The only advice I can give in addition to some of the sound suggestions mentioned is to take it easy. Any over-ambitious notion to getting the results in double quick time may lead to strained muscles, torn ligaments and other physical complications that can only add to some major discomfort.

The important thing about exercise with an objective in mind is to enjoy the routine. The muscles will come, just take it easy. Hey, few of us are 18 years old! :D
 
Back
Top