"Gravity knives" - BS in NYC

Asha'man

Asha'man

Joined
Jan 22, 2001
Messages
897
I was in New York City for the last few days, just running around seeing stuff, and today I went down to the Liberty Island/Ellis Island Ferry, at Battery Park. This was with my mom and sister; I went down there yesterday. So I go through security, take out my cell phone and knives and put them in my backpack, and my belt and glasses in the bin. It all goes through the X-ray machine, and of course the knives show up. The guy asks me to pull them out, and he looks at them. They are a small-size CS Voyager, a spear-point CRKT M16-13Z, and a silver Kershaw Chive. He calls another guy over, and he looks at them, hands the Chive back to me and says, "You can keep this one. We'll have to confiscate the others." :eek: I was like, "Uh, no, these are perfectly legal knives." So he flicks them both open and calls them "gravity knives", and totally illegal. My mom asks to talk to his supervisor, who was an even bigger retard. I almost lost my temper (I've never been in this kind of situation before, so I was kind of overwhelmed) and ended up basically saying, "Screw you, you idiot, you can go to heck if you think I'll hand my knives over to you." I didn't say that to his face, but I was about to.

I ended up stashing my knives in a hollow tree in Battery Park. I'd have flipped the guy off later, but my mom was there. :o

So what I'm asking you all is this: What is a good argument or bit of law to counter this asinine regulation? This guy must have had you-know-what for brains to be so adamant about this, but what could I have said? I'm sure many of you have run into this retarded rule, so what have you said or done to get your blades through anyway?

Angry back in Denver,

Asha'man
 
Its kinda funny that the most closely resembling an illegal mechanism is the one they let you hang onto. basically they can say you can or can't carry whatever they want even if they are being arbitrary and assinine. You can refuse to go there or abide by their rules. You should decide which is most important to you. Personally I would take one knife along in my pocket. Chances are it won't set off the detector by itseld anyway. If it does you just forgot. As far as confiscating your knives, unless they were actual police officers they could not confiscate them. They could hold them while you were inside, though.
 
Considering that you were within a few blocks of the World Trade Center site, it's not surprising that these people were giving extra "attention" to a guy trying to take multiple tactical knives through a security checkpoint. I'm not saying that they should make up their own rules, but considering the circumstances, it's just not surprising. If you had taken just one of those knives, any one, they may not have stopped you.
 
You have my sympaties Asha'man. I'm originally from NYC now in Wash DC. It's even worse here. Museums are now xraying and making visitors go through mags. I saw a sign at the Smithsonian saying something like "knives or any pointy objects are prohibited...(they want to target multi tools and bic pens?!)"

At one food court in town the "old post office pavilion" you have to go through security to get in...to eat!!! I too have had to stash my knife in a planter outside a building here to use the credit union. I have chatted w some sec guards and they generally seem to think they have the authority to confiscate...unless you threaten to call the police on them...

The other posters are right. Even if your knives are within boundries (state/local legal) they cannot take them from you, but they can deny you entrance, it's their establishment, and subject to tighter not more liberal rules. To demand otherwise might be to cause a disturbance. It's sad. it's sad.
 
I hate to say it, but if you ever read the federal switchblade statute, it clearly says that any knife that can flipped open by any means is considered a switchblade. In other words, most locking knives currently available can be classified as switchblades if the authorities are so inclined. The only thing I can suggest is to to tighten the action on all adjustable knives so that they cannot be easily flipped open.
 
Federal definitions and regs aside, NYS has clearly written definitions of what constitutes a switchblade and what constitutes a gravity knife written into the Penal Law Sect. 265. None of the knives listed meets either of those definitions.

To confiscate one or all would have been actionable. To deny you entrance into their facility so armed would not have been.

Given these trying days and times, especially in NYC and DC, a little understanding and forethought into one's EDC can go a long way.

Mike
 
The guys probably picked out the ones they liked and told you they would have to be confiscated. I'll bet when you came back later -surprise!- they would be off their shift and you'd never see those knives again.
 
As a native NYC'er, all I have to say is be reasonable and be understanding -- they are just doing their jobs.

In general, if you get something confiscated and you really need to go through the security checkpoint, get a receipt. And also, speak to the officers that you will contest it (politely, obviously) and inquire as to where you could get it back.
 
Howdy There..!
Boy, am I glad to read this. My family is planing a trip to the Big Apple next month and I was wonder what kind of security I may run into. Have a friend there that is a NYPD and I will have to ask him about the taking of items by security guards. We are planing on the usual tour type events so I may just leave my every day carry at home to avoid the trouble. Thanks for sharing to info.

Later "Possum":cool:
 
I went through the exact same thing at the Statue of Liberty about 3 years ago. I had 6 knives on me from a BM AFCK,( if any knife could be considered a gravity knife that one would), to a Beretta Airlight, after watching 2 park rangers spend 20 minutes trying to flip open and check for switches in the handles for an automatic knife they handed me back all six knifes and said, "next time leave some of the hardware home and it'll make entering the Federal Park a lot easier"
The key words here are Federal Park, and Park Ranger. This is a Federal Facility and as such is subject to federal regulations which strictly prohibit switchbladesor gravity knives of any kind.
This really had nothing to do with 9-11, although I'm sure since 9-11 the park rangers have become a little more strict in adhering to already existing federal park regulations.
Any time you go to any public facility or federal facility you risk the chance of having your hardware confiscated, believe me when I say your demeanor,and attitude determine the outcome of your confrontation, and that is what it becomes.
Always check the rules regarding weapons any time you go someplace like that, it's only an email or phone call away and will save you lots of aggravation in the long run.
 
A M16? a gravity knife?
Those guys must have s**t for brains.
Even with the ridiculous laws up here in Canada ain't that bad. I showed a cop a M16 and he couldn't flick it open (well he could if he have to. He does know the technique)
If they define a knife by flicking it open, then their definition is a bunch of BS. If they have any lockback, linerlocks, axis, arc locks or any other new kind of locks, I can probably flick them open and confiscate theirs.
This is sad. I would've thought that at least the states would be a bit better. With 911 it just all change, thanks to f****** CNN, media and the ignorant public.
(end rant, sorry for all the swearing, i'm just mad :mad: )
 
Whenever i'm headed for an area that illegalizes "gravity knives" I immediately forget about any non-slipjoint folder. I usually then look to see if a decently sized fixed blade is ok, usually is. I've been told by some that a very strong detented knife (such as that of my Camillus Enhanced EDC, which I can't flick open to save my life) qualify as "non-gravity" knives, but hey, I don't expect any jack@$$ to realize that. So I either don't go there, or only bring like a stockman or a fixed blade of some sort.
 
Well, thanks for the sympathy, guys. I was an idiot to react the way I did - I'm probably lucky he didn't just take them anyway. That said, there are a few things I have to say in reply to you guys, and a couple more questions.

1) I told him that I had talked to a NY cop (I might have, in my other NYC thread :) ) and that these were legal to carry. He said something like, "I don't care what the cops said, I'm with the Federal Government and this is an illegal knife." Basically, I think he was saying that what we say supercedes what a cop says. Was he right?

2) He wouldn't hold them and give me a receipt to pick them up later, like they did at the Empire State Building. (Don't even get me started on that - what kind of damage do they think a guy with a knife can do at the top of a building?:mad: ) There, they said okay, here's a receipt, come here after your tour and you can get your knives back. The guy at Battery Park said, "If we confiscate them, you'll never see them again and they will be destroyed. Holding them for you isn't our policy." Can they do this, or were they just lying because they wanted to keep my knives?

3) T. Erdelyi: And Federal law supercedes local law, right? Is that why this guy said that it didn't matter what the cops said?

4) Calyth: Yeah, he flicked open the M16 and the Voyager upside-down, blade down. My M16 is pretty easy to flick, because I flick it a lot and it's pretty well broken in, but still....

5) Disco Stu: That's kind of what I was thinking. Funny how I got that exact same EDC combo through the same security tent the day before, and those guys weren't working then. :rolleyes:

Now, for the real big question: Where can I get a tactical-looking, 3-inch bladed slipjoint? :)

Asha'man

(edited for a botched smiley)
 
small brain+a little authority= big a$$hole!

it happens all the time..........look at the last president!! :(
 
You did talk to a NY cop.;)

NYS Penal Law Sect. 265.00

4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.
5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.

With Compliments,

Mike
 
Originally posted by sgtmike88
You did talk to a NY cop.;)

NYS Penal Law Sect. 265.00

4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.
Click to expand...

Well, I definitely carry two switchblades around then... but don't worry about them... worry about the Glock in my waistband and the Mossberg 500 I tote around in a guitar case... oh, don'r forget the mean, bloodthirsty Pit Bull...

Just Joking... Maybe...
 
In a word yes federal law supercedes local law.
The link below is taken from the Statue of Liberty Securities Guidelines web page.

Asha'man ya gotta watch I know a few guys who like to play a game where they see if they can sneak their blades past security check points, IMO this is pretty stupid, but the real scary part is that they've never been caught, I won't get into the details of how, but suffice it to say it can and is being done.
Even though they use metal detectors, and X-Ray if someone wants to sneak one in they will, so don't be lulled into a false sense security, but don't try to beat the system either, I know my freinds will get nailed, it's just a matter of time. I just hope that I'm not with them when it happens.





http://www.nps.gov/stli/reopening/page3.html
 
If you would, please tell your friends not to do that (sneaking knives past security for $hits and giggles, that is). They're sorta making life harder for the rest of us. Thanks!

Professor.
 
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